Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Asmodai]

The best thing about these threads?
They never do anything.

Because the people that post, rightfully complaining about giving others piggyback rides, will never get through to the people that they need to...

The people they need to get through to are not the people doing bad, its the people that defend them which the forums is full of. If you make it socially unacceptable to be bad less people will be bad.

[Archaell]

The people they need to get through to are not the people doing bad, its the people that defend them which the forums is full of. If you make it socially unacceptable to be bad less people will be bad.

This. The main problem are the people defending players being lazy and playing poorly. It is completely illogical and it seems like they are afraid of players getting better for some odd reason. Actually this should be called the elitism, preventing others from catching up.

If we want to make DF a better place:

1. The community has to stop defending lazy and bad play
2. The community has to encourage players to help others improve (instead of making them afraid of the vote kick every single time they try to help)
3. The community has to discourage the behaviour which goes against learning ("don't waste my time teaching him the best rotation, let's finish this!")
4. The community has to have no tolerance for selfish and non-cooperative single player play in the team based environment

Which is something almost impossible tho yet worthy of pursuing.

[Kuwagami]

This. The main problem are the people defending players being lazy and playing poorly. It is completely illogical and it seems like they are afraid of players getting better for some odd reason. Actually this should be called the elitism, preventing others from catching up.

If we want to make DF a better place:

1. The community has to stop defending lazy and bad play
2. The community has to encourage players to help others improve (instead of making them afraid of the vote kick every single time they try to help)
3. The community has to discourage the behaviour which goes against learning ("don't waste my time teaching him the best rotation, let's finish this!")
4. The community has to have no tolerance for selfish and non-cooperative single player play in the team based environment

Which is something almost impossible tho yet worthy of pursuing.

mentor system. Please look forward to it

I am staying a lil bit sceptical till the mentor system proves its value beyond getting some fancy icons, titles and rewards. It could also end up like the roulettes, which would be shame.

people will always abuse any system put in place. But we can't blame devs for not trying, because they do

[Archaell]

mentor system. Please look forward to it

I am staying a lil bit sceptical till the mentor system proves its value beyond getting some fancy icons, titles and rewards. It could also end up like the roulettes, which would be shame.

[Whiteroom]

I am staying a lil bit sceptical till the mentor system proves its value beyond getting some fancy icons, titles and rewards. It could also end up like the roulettes, which would be shame.

This, also there are a lot of people out there I would want teaching.

Look at those on the forums that defend lazy play.
"You don't have to worry about your skills! Just mash buttons and smile, The rest of the team be damned!"

Also really wish the training hall at least showed DPS so people could see how much doing the designed rotation effects your output.

[SixtyLove]

This. The main problem are the people defending players being lazy and playing poorly. It is completely illogical and it seems like they are afraid of players getting better for some odd reason. Actually this should be called the elitism, preventing others from catching up.

If we want to make DF a better place:

1. The community has to stop defending lazy and bad play
2. The community has to encourage players to help others improve (instead of making them afraid of the vote kick every single time they try to help)
3. The community has to discourage the behaviour which goes against learning ("don't waste my time teaching him the best rotation, let's finish this!")
4. The community has to have no tolerance for selfish and non-cooperative single player play in the team based environment

Which is something almost impossible tho yet worthy of pursuing.

This.

Sadly, this is not something that can be fixed by the community, and those who do try will have difficulty trying to encourage and improve anyone who does not want to be helped. I was in an FC on Zodiark where after the release of HW there was a growing atmosphere of "well I got 60 first / got LAW gear first / beat A1N first" all from DPS players with poor rotation, and an unwillingness to improve as players. These players would also fail to complete boss mechanics properly due to them all starting well into the life cycle of ARR which meant they got a lot of carries through the level 50 post game content (LoTA / ST / Dungeons) by those in Ironworks gear where partial zergs were becomming the norm.

We did an FC run on Odin for people to get a clear. On my Yasha geared DRG I outdpsed 2 ninjas and a MNK who had a mix of EST tome gear and Alexander drops ....this was purely because I took the time to learn my job, rotation and to actually move out of AOE's to give healers an easier time. This is something that a lot of our newer players of DPS classes just can't be bothered with becaese "lewl soon there will be ilvl230 gear and we can zerg lolz". That is a sad reality to be honest with you, but it has to be expected. Dodging and mechanics aren't even that hard if you at least try, but a lot of players have been taught to not worry about the mechanics and so here we are. The irony is that one of those Ninja's asked me if I was scared of Alexander because I didn't attempt it on day one, unlike him.... however our FC leader was hounded by other players from the PF groups he joined because he was so bad at his job and would get himself one shotted/cause wipes/always be KO'd. I prefer to learn the strat for raid and gear appropriately before I attempt something, so I can pull my weight and not get a carry. If you know my DRG, then you know I'm no floor tanker.

You can't make those poor or unwilling types of players better because unfortunately their entitled attitude to 'play how I want' has been solidified by the ability to be carried through a lot of content by those of us who have been around since launch. The crux of the matter is, why should they learn when everyone else can do it for them? This is something that is encroached within the design of the game itself, so as a community we can all only do so much.