Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Whiteroom]

Can someone please give me a source for that "90%". Please. Particularly something not pulled out of thin air?

Links welcome.

If, as I expect, it is a spurious statistic [example: 90% of people who quote statistics are pulling it out of thin air], then the argument about a legitimate concern is not cool.

Besides, it is a well know fact that 100% of bots do NOT reply to questions about whether they are a bot ...

But then a number of players don't respond to anything in Party Chat either.

Do you really not know the most common bots are BLMs, there is a very simple answer why.

In open world you see them paired up with a WHM one in awhile, farming.

[DPZ2]

Comparing yourself to the bottom of the barrel does absolutely nothing, and this is another example of why measuring your DPS by your enmity is largely inaccurate. Enmity-reducing abilities aside, you can be second highest enmity at 700 dps because everyone else is still pulling 500. That still makes you bad.

Oooooh. Finally, a solid number!

500 DPS is bad, people. So all of you out there are expected to pull at least ... um, 700 is also bad? What is 'good' then? And in what context?

Inquiring minds think this is also a 'spurious statistic', but are willing to be proven wrong.

[TheUltimateSeph]

Comparing yourself to the bottom of the barrel does absolutely nothing, and this is another example of why measuring your DPS by your enmity is largely inaccurate. Enmity-reducing abilities aside, you can be second highest enmity at 700 dps because everyone else is still pulling 500. That still makes you bad.


lol


Your new level 50-60 skills aren't "optional". You're not considered "good" by doing the very least that is required of you. The person that quoted you earlier (dark494) is completely correct.

1. Fair point, though even in that case I would still be carrying them and according to the people in this thread I would have every right to complain.

2. Subjective personal opinion. There isn't a mechanic that makes me die if I don't use the level 52-60 skills or any rules saying I have to, nor indeed do they have to be used to put out decent dps and clear level 60 dungeons. They are optional.

[Whiteroom]

Oooooh. Finally, a solid number!

500 DPS is bad, people. So all of you out there are expected to pull at least ... um, 700 is also bad? What is 'good' then? And in what context?

Inquiring minds think this is also a 'spurious statistic', but are willing to be proven wrong.

Depends on the class and number of mobs really. During boss fights(VA) in pf a run would be very very smooth if everyone pulled 1K. But I doubt you will see that anytime soon. If you visit the log site you will see one-four over that. More for a nice run. But boss and class dependant.

But I don't run parsers (PS4 ), and have only browsed arou d the log site a bit.

[DPZ2]

Do you really not know the most common bots are BLMs, there is a very simple answer why.

In open world you see them paired up with a WHM one in awhile, farming.

I have seen, um, 4 bots in this game that I knew were bots ... they were all level 10 or so, and all mining iron ore. The stutter-step-glide was a dead give-away.

Have you ever asked a bot "are you a bot?" and gotten a reply?

More importantly, have you ever had a conversation by yourself in a dungeon instance in Party Chat with no one replying? Were they all bots? Including the tank and healer?

I've run through more silent dungeon instances than I've seen actual guaranteed bots.

[Odett]

Oooooh. Finally, a solid number!

500 DPS is bad, people. So all of you out there are expected to pull at least ... um, 700 is also bad? What is 'good' then? And in what context?

Inquiring minds think this is also a 'spurious statistic', but are willing to be proven wrong.

Context is contingent on item level, if there is AoE or not, collateral damage on ads that don't matter when single-targeting a boss (Faust), off-phases due to mechanics, your job and the type of fight you're dealing with (high SMN DPS in A2) and item level. In a fight like Thordan EX, for example, as an ilv 199 NIN, it's considered decent if you push past 1300 DPS after the first Heavenly Heel. At the end of the fight, your DPS will go down due to off phases, not attacking due to all the mechanics you have to handle, and stacking for certain parts of a fight and losing DPS due to not hitting positionals, so having more than 1000 DPS by the end of the fight is actually not bad, whereas having 1000DPS at the end of the first Heavenly Heel using an ilv199 NIN as an example would mean you have a lot of work to do on your rotation for that fight.

Go over to VA and a boss like Echidna, where the only times you're not hitting something is when it does the stack damage AoE, the mass circle AoE's, and charging up Gehenna, and 700dps is pretty crappy. I could pull around 620 DPS as a lv 50 NIN when Final Coil got Echo. Again, context matters so there is no "solid number", but using the person's example that I quoted, where they were spamming Chaos Thrust as a lv 60 Lancer and somehow being proud that they were SIXTH on the enmity list, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that that is laughable at best.

[Whiteroom]

I have seen, um, 4 bots in this game that I knew were bots ... they were all level 10 or so, and all mining iron ore. The stutter-step-glide was a dead give-away.

Have you ever asked a bot "are you a bot?" and gotten a reply?

More importantly, have you ever had a conversation by yourself in a dungeon instance in Party Chat with no one replying? Were they all bots? Including the tank and healer?

I've run through more silent dungeon instances than I've seen actual guaranteed bots.

So you have never seen the hordes of BLM in the i90 gear all with the same weapon? I believe it is a horn staff, not in game now, so can't remember. Do you just not know about them, they are fairly obvious.

Also, the point is to not get an answer from them. If the question is asked, and no response is given, the common optionis to kick them, mess with them, or get on with it. I would assume if you are going to ask, you are willing to kick, especially if others agree.

[KaitlanKela]

Can someone please give me a source for that "90%". Please. Particularly something not pulled out of thin air?

Links welcome.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._bots_in_free/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._out_at_night/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ver_right_now/

All three threads specfically mention BLM by name (and they are by no means the only threads). Why? Because they have a near infinite mana pool and ranged attacks. All one needs to do is glitch off the map a little bit so the mobs can't hit you, use the standard lvl 50 rotation and kill whatever enemy spawns to farm the drops from it. Normally crafting mats. It's pretty common. You see them in instances too.

To your second point, the key is that, though they responded afterwards, there was no way for the OP to know without asking. Obviously, if it were me, I would have waited for them to respond to the first statement in chat without going on to ask if they are a bot. It's not very tactful, BUT in no way is it automatically meant to be a slight. It very well could have been meant honestly.

Try again.

[Odett]

1. Fair point, though even in that case I would still be carrying them and according to the people in this thread I would have every right to complain.

There is absolutely no world where you spamming Chaos Thrust as a LANCER and being 6th on an enmity list is carrying anyone, and the fact that you keep pushing this argument leads me to believe that you are either a troll, or highly deluded. I'm fairly sure that we are both aware that you purposely botching your rotation while knowing better gives you absolutely no right to complain. Stop playing dumb.

2. Subjective personal opinion. There isn't a mechanic that makes me die if I don't use the level 52-60 skills or any rules saying I have to, nor indeed do they have to be used to put out decent dps and clear level 60 dungeons. They are optional.

There isn't also a mechanic in a dungeon that makes me play DRK correctly and I can drop Darkside all the time, stay in Grit, and spam my most ineffective combo, Power Slash. I don't do it because I respect the time of the people running with me and I try to help out my group as much as I can. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, and I really don't understand why that is such a strange concept to grasp for someone that honestly knows better.

[Kuwagami]

Oooooh. Finally, a solid number!

500 DPS is bad, people. So all of you out there are expected to pull at least ... um, 700 is also bad? What is 'good' then? And in what context?

Gonna re-quote myself then :

Just as an example : I do 750-800 dps as a i190 DRG (full proto-gordian + ravana) without using any buff and no Blood of the Dragon. I consider that better geared DRGs who do less are not knowledgeable or downright not trying. Does that make me an elitist, while I'm just asking for the bare minimum of the job (i.e., using its base rotation. It's even the 2.0 rotation here for those who might not be comfortable with BOTD) ?

I'll give some piece of advice to those trying, but I won't happily hold the hand of the "carry me I won't bother" crowd

a "bad" DRG for me is a i190+ DRG pulling less than 800 dps. Because I can do more without buffs and with the 2.0 rotation which does less dps than the 3.0 rotation.