Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Radacci]

I have to say I think TheUltimateSeph has some valid points here. With the amount of content the game offers and presents to you it's very easy to miss things, especially if you're new to the genre and don't take an interest in things like patchnotes..

you're not new, if you're lv 60. if you're lv 60 and don't know about job quests, that falls under the category: "you rushed through the game without enjoying it!" that people seem to dislike....but yet defend capped people, who don't know anything about the game. you don't need to read patch notes, to know about job quests.
there's quite a lot of dungeons you need to do, to get to fractal - why wouldn't you have some minimum expectations? you'd think they would learn something during all that time. but im sure there's plenty of shitty healers, who are so bad, that the pld had to heal-tank, and blm support-heal the entire run; and people get away with it, cause people don't wanna step on any sensitive toes.
Or that amdapor city run, where SMN only used energy drain, ruin and Miasma II (out of range, so it didn't hit anything) he ignored every suggestion i made, and didn't improve in the slightest; me and another player started joking about it, and SMN left, so obviously he was reading, but chose to ignore every suggestion.

When it came to skills I found reading the tooltips gave me an understanding of the ability, but weaving it into my rotations effectively took me more time. Maybe I'm a little slower or less intelligent than some, that's cool by me, I spent ages pouring over the dragoon advice thread and trying to work out and remember what all the abbreviations were and how they related to the icons in game and how I could shift my toolbars to optimal positions. I know I took a while to work out how to combine what I had and piece it all together to output some decent damage and I'm pretty sure many parties would have seen me in my learning phase and thought "he could be doing this better" but now i'm at a place where I know what I'm doing and despite knowing I could do some things better feel confident in my abilities. It definitely took me a while though. I think everyone has to accept there's a wide range of players out there with varying skills, abilities and interests and without knowing exactly who is on the other end behind the avatar in game I don't like to assume anything.

if there was more people like you, who are honest with themselves and their learning curve, and trying to improve, etc, there would be no issues; but people treat suggestions, as poison - refuse to listen, learn and improve.

[xLucia]

You been here since release, but low post count, lurk much?

Haha yea I've actually been a FF14 player since 1.0. I don't browse the forums that much, and I don't usually feel the need to reply to topics unless I find them interesting enough to throw myself in there. I usually enjoy just reading the forums

On topic: I used to play WoW myself, but eventually I got sick of the childish and "rage at everything" behaviour, so quit playing it. Sadly it seems that this behaviour is starting to infect FF's community aswell Most people are still open to accept help I feel but I do come across some rotten apples from time to time.

[autumn]

but people treat suggestions, as poison - refuse to listen, learn and improve.

Yeah you're absolutely right there, the majority of the time they do during the duty. But I do believe most of the time it is that they feel backed into a corner or embarrassed/shamed, so approaching the topic during a duty can be a delicate one if you want a dialogue with a positive outcome. I'd like to hope (perhaps naively) that the SMN you mentioned left and might have gone and looked into his job a bit more. Being made fun of and being the butt of a joke doesn't feel good and as you say he left probably because of it. Fingers crossed he questioned his methods and learned from it (not to condone making fun of people there).

I get your points regarding the route to 60 and the expectation that players should have learned by then, you're right there is plenty of time for them to learn the basics. In an ideal world all would have read their tooltips and remembered where they left off at the end of 2.0 and realised there must be some new skills out there to accompany the new level cap (just watching other players you could work that out from say the animation for Blood of the Dragon or the symbol for Leylines and thinking why do I not have that). I do think the game could do more to help here though, there's evidently something wrong as so many seem to discuss the topic, especially lately.

[MrsFluffyButt]

Sadly you can't dismiss nor fix stupid. Best to take it with a pinch of salt or prepare to bail in the certain future.

[Kacho_Nacho]

No. Good players do understand those looking for more casual play, and aren't at their best. *snippity snip*

Good points, and personally, I am in agreement. I was just pointing out not everyone sees the game in the same way.

As far as bad behavior, I wonder if there is a social disorder which hinders people from understanding that they are interacting with real people, and not their computer, on online games?

The me me me attitude might spring from that. The player feels he isn't talking to someone real and acts out accordingly. As you say, there are plenty of single player games out there for those types of people.

[Cynthis]

I think laziness also plays a part here. I must have run neverreap a few hundred times by now compared to fractal maybe a dozen, roulette is random my ass! Whenever I enter neverreap now I mentally switch off from sheer boredom and I definitely don't go for optimal rotation. Yes, that may make the dungeon take a minute extra but if that is not acceptable to people then they really need to just run it with a static where everyone is always 100% focused.

[Seraphix2407]

You may be taking this game a touch too seriously.

This is the typical thing most ''casuals'' say. Sorry, but I have to say it. When you seriously do something with people or help people to try understand their class later then say ''you taking game too seriously''. Ever heard about time is precious? What about respecting peoples time. If I KNOW I'm bad, I would rather leave then say something like what you just said. Ugh.

[ChocoFeru]

Asking a person 'why aren't you doing X?' is now considered rude.

Fractal apparently isn't lvl60 content.

All of you are over-sensitive fools coddling the worst type of players because feelings may be vaguely hurt somehow by a simple question, or can't read.

This is why I never think much of this forum community.

In before I get banned for this too.

OP started with a "is this a bot?" therefore your argument is invalid and you're wrong.

Please read the post before talking.

[Radacci]

Yeah you're absolutely right there, the majority of the time they do during the duty. But I do believe most of the time it is that they feel backed into a corner or embarrassed/shamed, so approaching the topic during a duty can be a delicate one if you want a dialogue with a positive outcome. I'd like to hope (perhaps naively) that the SMN you mentioned left and might have gone and looked into his job a bit more. Being made fun of and being the butt of a joke doesn't feel good and as you say he left probably because of it. Fingers crossed he questioned his methods and learned from it (not to condone making fun of people there).

i come off as a douche, on forums, quite often, but i always approach people as politely as i can, in-game. this was a while ago, but my suggestions are something like: Hey SMN, you should use your DoTs too and Bane, to pass the dots to other mobs.
now ofc, he could have been on PS3 or something, and couldn't reply, but i kept giving advice throughout most of the instance, and didn't start joking about it until we were close to Diablos, so there was plenty of time for him to make changes and improvements. had he said anything, and/or improved, i'd even given him a commendation. It could have been a bot though, otherwise it's utterly mind-boggling that someone in such late-game (this was before HW) could be that bad.

[Kuwagami]

Is it because I didn't coddle the DPS when I asked him why he didn't use enochian? Do I have to talk to people like they are children that wlll cry if I don't ask them something in the nicest and most passive way imagineable?

Generally speaking, yes. Or else you'll face being ignored, or reported for harassment, or what-have-you. With that said...

You may be taking this game a touch too seriously.

^This

Also, you can't teach people how to play in a single run. Especially in DF parties. Tell them they might want to check up some guides, eventually give them links if they want some, but by telling them what to do if they didn't ask is out of your way.


Generally, I just say something along the lines of "you're not doing the maximum you could do, may I give you some bit of advice ?" and then it's up to them to know if they want to improve or not.