Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[TheUltimateSeph]

TheUltimateSeph,

Since you have DRG at 60, a BLM not using Enochian would be the equivalent of a DRG not using Blood of the Dragon. Both require the buff to be up to use a level 60 rotation. If a DRG lets BotD drop, they have to convert to using the rotation of shame (level 50 rotation). The same is true of BLM, if Enochian drops they are forced to convert to the level 50 rotation until they can use Enochian again.

Oh of this I am well aware. Ironically I still out dps most people in my groups when not bothering with BoD. Hell as an experiment one time I went into Void Ark as a Lancer and used nothing but Chaos Thrust on the last boss and I was still staying at about 6-5th place on the enmity list for my party. Our level 50 rotations are still viable means of good dps. Our level 60 rotations let us do more obviously. It's what each person considers "good" I guess.

You, and everyone else who thinks like you, is what is wrong with this community. It is thoroughly embarrassing that you would even suggest this, that you'd even think of defending the kind of attitude your blm had instead of sticking up for the ones who are trying to help players improve. There is no excuse for anyone, at anytime, anywhere, to conciously hold back the rest of the group and be nothing but a hinderance. Nobody gets a free pass ever to be deadweight. You pull your own weight or you get left behind. It's downright rude and arrogant to your fellow players to suggest they have to carry you and do all your work for you.

It's an mmo, you want to act like a loser you go do it by yourself. The minute you step into anything with other players you are beholden to them to give only your best and earnest efforts, or you are wasting everyone's time and efforts by showing how vain you are.

You are the one being extremely rude here. In the OPs screen shot the healer didn't look at all like they were defending the BLM but trying to get everyone to just drop the whole issue as it was already resulting in a fight. This is trying to keep the peace, not defending bad play. To say people like him are what's wrong with the community is INCREDIBLY rude!

Ok lets see if I can explain this.

Hotshot doesn't lock behind it 90% of MCH rotation behind it. Enochain does. If you arent at all even popping enochian then you obviously aren't doing 90% of your rotation.

A MCH that forgets to do hotshot now and again can indeed be top dps in a run like you said, and can indeed do pretty good dps even with forgetting it.

A BLM cannot do either of those things without using Enochain.

We can argue all day but they aren't even in the same league. A MCH who forgets hot shot but does everything else is trying. A BLM that doesn't use enochain is not.

e_e I said nevermind the level 60 rotation for now. I was only comparing the boost in damage from the two skills, not rotations, since the OP wasn't complaining about rotations and a lot of people in this thread were saying at the very least they should have used Enochian.

[Andrea]

e_e I said nevermind the level 60 rotation for now. I was only comparing the boost in damage from the two skills, not rotations, since the OP wasn't complaining about rotations and a lot of people in this thread were saying at the very least they should have used Enochian.

And im saying he is complaining about the lack of enochain because their rotation requires you use it. I dont know how to make this clearer.

[TheUltimateSeph]

And im saying he is complaining about the lack of enochain because their rotation requires you use it. I dont know how to make this clearer.

just got into a roulette with a blackmage that didnt use enochian, after noticing when the first boss took longer than expected, I called him out on it and got this wonderful tidbit of dialog


I wouldn't have cared as much if they had just used enochian snip

In the screenshot the OP never mentions rotations at all, and in the bolded part says they would have been happy with just Enochian. If it was also because they wouldn't be able to use their 60 rotation they didn't mention it at all in game.

[Andrea]

In the screenshot the OP never mentions rotations at all, and in the bolded part says they would have been happy with just Enochian. If it was also because they wouldn't be able to use their 60 rotation they didn't mention it at all in game.

Yes because if they aren't using enochain then they obviously aren't even attempting to do their rotation at all.

[dark494]

In the OPs screen shot

And I'm gonna stop you right there because never anywhere did I even bring up the OP or the screenshot. I even directly quoted the healer's reply/defense/bs (which you can click on my quote to go view it b/c it's long and nonsensical) that he posted on page 1, which you clearly haven't read. Get off your high horse and learn some reading comprehension.

[TheUltimateSeph]

And I'm gonna stop you right there because never anywhere did I even bring up the OP or the screenshot. I even directly quoted the healer's reply/defense/bs (which you can click on my quote to go view it b/c it's long and nonsensical) that he posted on page 1, which you clearly haven't read. Get off your high horse and learn some reading comprehension.

I was the healer in this group, first like me start out by saying it would have been better if you suggested to the BLM to use Enochian instead of putting them on the spot and asking them repeatedly why they didn't use it. After you said something, she started using it

. The reason the tank said those things was because they were in the same FC. I'll go out on a limb and say they are a couple. Yes, the first boss was taking forever, but there are a lot of new players around now and BLM was her first 60.

This was Fractal, it's not super hard and doesn't require people to know the ends and outs of their jobs. People learn at their own pace. if you want to suggest something they are doing wrong then that's fine. If they change, great! If not, either leave or just stay for the ride.

Everything he said here is valid. I would also like to point out this particular post of his has 91 likes and counting. Seems quiet a few people agree with what he had to say! If me defending another player who has good points on the topic is me riding on a high horse I'll gladly continue to ride it and maybe train it to walk on stilts!

[Odett]

Oh of this I am well aware. Ironically I still out dps most people in my groups when not bothering with BoD. Hell as an experiment one time I went into Void Ark as a Lancer and used nothing but Chaos Thrust on the last boss and I was still staying at about 6-5th place on the enmity list for my party

Comparing yourself to the bottom of the barrel does absolutely nothing, and this is another example of why measuring your DPS by your enmity is largely inaccurate. Enmity-reducing abilities aside, you can be second highest enmity at 700 dps because everyone else is still pulling 500. That still makes you bad.

Our level 50 rotations are still viable means of good dps.

lol

It's what each person considers "good" I guess.

Your new level 50-60 skills aren't "optional". You're not considered "good" by doing the very least that is required of you. The person that quoted you earlier (dark494) is completely correct.

[DPZ2]

Comparing yourself to the bottom of the barrel does absolutely nothing, and this is another example of why measuring your DPS by your enmity is largely inaccurate. Enmity-reducing abilities aside, you can be second highest enmity at 700 dps because everyone else is still pulling 500. That still makes you bad.

Oooooh. Finally, a solid number!

500 DPS is bad, people. So all of you out there are expected to pull at least ... um, 700 is also bad? What is 'good' then? And in what context?

Inquiring minds think this is also a 'spurious statistic', but are willing to be proven wrong.

[Whiteroom]

Oooooh. Finally, a solid number!

500 DPS is bad, people. So all of you out there are expected to pull at least ... um, 700 is also bad? What is 'good' then? And in what context?

Inquiring minds think this is also a 'spurious statistic', but are willing to be proven wrong.

Depends on the class and number of mobs really. During boss fights(VA) in pf a run would be very very smooth if everyone pulled 1K. But I doubt you will see that anytime soon. If you visit the log site you will see one-four over that. More for a nice run. But boss and class dependant.

But I don't run parsers (PS4 ), and have only browsed arou d the log site a bit.

[Odett]

Oooooh. Finally, a solid number!

500 DPS is bad, people. So all of you out there are expected to pull at least ... um, 700 is also bad? What is 'good' then? And in what context?

Inquiring minds think this is also a 'spurious statistic', but are willing to be proven wrong.

Context is contingent on item level, if there is AoE or not, collateral damage on ads that don't matter when single-targeting a boss (Faust), off-phases due to mechanics, your job and the type of fight you're dealing with (high SMN DPS in A2) and item level. In a fight like Thordan EX, for example, as an ilv 199 NIN, it's considered decent if you push past 1300 DPS after the first Heavenly Heel. At the end of the fight, your DPS will go down due to off phases, not attacking due to all the mechanics you have to handle, and stacking for certain parts of a fight and losing DPS due to not hitting positionals, so having more than 1000 DPS by the end of the fight is actually not bad, whereas having 1000DPS at the end of the first Heavenly Heel using an ilv199 NIN as an example would mean you have a lot of work to do on your rotation for that fight.

Go over to VA and a boss like Echidna, where the only times you're not hitting something is when it does the stack damage AoE, the mass circle AoE's, and charging up Gehenna, and 700dps is pretty crappy. I could pull around 620 DPS as a lv 50 NIN when Final Coil got Echo. Again, context matters so there is no "solid number", but using the person's example that I quoted, where they were spamming Chaos Thrust as a lv 60 Lancer and somehow being proud that they were SIXTH on the enmity list, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that that is laughable at best.