Paladin TP issues should be adressed

[Ultimatecalibur]

That would be fine, only it is actively discouraged by HW end-game.

Clemency's cast time (and the possibility of interrupts) limits it's use to Tank Busters, AoE's, or general pauses in the fight where the boss becomes un-target-able (which makes no diff to Tp, since you're no longer attacking anyway). So even if you are using Clemency liberally and skillfully you're not replenishing all that much Tp on the whole. Using Clemency or Stone Skin during a mob pull is enmity suicide, because Pld's have the lowest enmity gen out of all the Tanks. 3 seconds casting is 3 seconds in which you stand to lose hate on something a gun happy Smn is attacking.

Now, for the most part (100% up-time fights aside) it is possible to use Clemency and Stone Skin to the effect of keeping a decent amount of Tp (not nearly as much as War or Drk, but enough to function); however, if you do use those skills you are openly criticized for it by both the game mechanics and your party members. Dps checks were so steep in end-game that any Pld who dared to cast a Stone Skin or Clemency were crucified for lowering the parties Dps. Pld's already have the lowest Dps of all 3, so they were first on the chopping block when Dps checks hit the ceiling. Going extra Tanky by using SS or Clem meant being immediately replaced with a War or Drk.

Yep. So many problems seem to stem from player and the dev team's perspectives on what is important not aligning.

And Dark Knight at least gets its Blood Weapon, so it has some form of tp management when used frequently. Wouldn't mind it if Paladin got a similar skill like that actually, I think that could help a lot.

Blood Weapon was originally a DpS cooldown which inadvertently increased TP consumption. The 20% decrease in TP costs was added to prevent it from being a TP drain. The math is slightly off and it ended up being a TP gain at low skillspeed levels when the buff was applied.

[Februs]

Yep. So many problems seem to stem from player and the dev team's perspectives on what is important not aligning.

Definitely. Once they've made something and given it to the world it's hard to anticipate what the world will do with it ... That being said, I think that this is also a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing. Consider:

-They gave Pld's casting tools, but they did not adjust Pld enmity to account for the cast time.

-They gave them a high skill speed, but Clemency scales off of spell speed.

- Hypothetically, a high skill speed could compensate for a low threat gen if Pld's could use their enmity combo faster than the other two tanks ...

- BUT, at the same time, if they did have enough skill speed to compensate for their low threat gen, they'd burn through Tp faster and have to resort to casting.

- Faster speed = Increased Tp consumption. Increased Tp consumption = Increased casting to compensate. Increased casting = Decreased enmity and decreased dps ... which defies the point of having that skill speed.

No matter how you slice it, it doesn't make sense that Pld was designed this way, and these aren't the only problems. There's a lot of things about the Pld kit that are counter-intuitive (not being able to self-buff with Divine Veil by casting Clemency, for example), and that's before they are even put into practice. High Dps checks seen in end-game pretty much write off all of Pld's casting. So, even if the developers who put together the Pld kit thought that casting would be a Pld's means of Tp conservation, the dungeon development team obviously did not get the memo, because they made that impossible with the way they designed the dungeons.

[Torunya]

So, even if the developers who put together the Pld kit thought that casting would be a Pld's means of Tp conservation, the dungeon development team obviously did not get the memo, because they made that impossible with the way they designed the dungeons.

Your words are like song to my ears. I couldn't have said it any better.

[RecklessLion]

I've never seen so many people complain so much in my entire life of video games. Like umm the best defensive tanks in the game and yall crying about emnity, damage, tp, blah blah blah. So far leveling my pld with my cousin and I'm able to keep aggro more with my lower lvl pld then I do DRK....TP issues hmmm unlike the other tanks you do have fewer GCD. Still PLD remains the easiest to play and boy hollow grounds.......probably the best tanking move I've seen in my tank life. I'm sorry I agree with SE on this. You can't have the lowest skill tank with the highest defense cd with the fastest attack speed........now yall want higher attack damage and tp control. Smh and that still won't be enough for yall.

[Torunya]

Smh and that still won't be enough for yall.

Hmm. You're kind of missing the point. We're talking about the Paladin's tp issues, not enmity.

In the current endgame meta War and Drk tanks are favoured over Pld tanks. War especially, as they're in a very good spot right now. That job functions incredibly well at the moment. However I do agree that Pld remains the easiest tank job to play. But I don't think you should see this topic in such a negative light, no one here is complaining. Now if Pld's damage output remained as is, I wouldn't have any qualms with it. If Yoshi wants us to remain true to the good ol' "Meat shield" role, that's fine. I just personally think that Pld could stand to gain some form of method to at least slightly manage its tp. Because as already mentioned, fights with 100% uptime will deplete your tp and utterly choke your damage output.

[RecklessLion]

Hmm maybe I am looking at it in a negative light at the same time they bring alot to the table just not offensively tp and damage would be that offensive they don't bring. Only enough which you have to agree with. Of course WAR is sitting pretty it's pretty much the best OT. Been that way since 2.0 from what I read and the content I played. But the yells for PLD is dps and tp management. I heard it was waaaay worse then this, they got fixed apparently not enough. If those two issues are fixed with the defensive stacks pld have why would DRK matters? WARS always going to be the best ot due to eye and path combos unless the other two comes up with something more accessible it won't change.

[Torunya]

Of course WAR is sitting pretty it's pretty much the best OT. Been that way since 2.0 from what I read and the content I played.

I actually have mixed views regarding this, and have been looking at a reddit article you might find interesting.

- https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...din_is_a_much/

Although this is off-topic, feel free to give it a read. =)

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

@reckless
PLD does not have a significant advantage over any other tank defensively. EVERY single tank has the defensive cd's to MT any content in the game. PLD has a slim advantage on physical damage encounters, but any DRK or WAR worth their salt can handle themselves just fine in a physical encounter. PLD brings to the table, disjointed and situational utility, the worst damage output and the fastest TP floor. Too many important disadvantages to the class, when compared to WAR which has no disadvantages or DRK which has a significantly better balance between its strengths and weaknesses.

@torunya
interesting read, but TBH, they aren't comparing all 3 classes and it is too focused on looking at things from just that classes "bubble". In 2.x War as MT, PLD as OT was the harder hitting combo. For 3.0, DRK gets the opportunity to utilize its hardest hitting combos more frequently thanks to getting punched in the face, which is what pushes them to the top

TP adjustments would be nice. I'd even accept it if they added it to some other mostly useless skill like tempered will. (mini invigorate or something)
- "Tempered Will" - Prevents knockbacks, mostly (Thordan EX.... why) removes heavy (but not when you are mounted) and gives you 200 TP.

[RecklessLion]

@reckless
PLD does not have a significant advantage over any other tank defensively. EVERY single tank has the defensive cd's to MT any content in the game. PLD has a slim advantage on physical damage encounters, but any DRK or WAR worth their salt can handle themselves just fine in a physical encounter.

I agree at the same time it's not always the case. Ravana EX showed me otherwise. If you fight Ravana with the average gear accepted final liberation with it stacks will slaughter warrior. On top of keeping path up you have to plan accordingly for inner beast while shield oath and grit remains defending 20% throughout. PLD still have Sentinel which is better also, awareness which of course better due to upgrade for pld. And the cross skill they get. On top of the easiest tanks to play. You have to take everything into consideration instead of only comparing.

[Maltothoris]

That's ravana ex. The fights where the pld's issues are apparent are fights like A3 Savage and and A4 Savage where u need to pump out as much dps as possible to the point to where the paladin's playstyle goes against this. It took plds 3-4 weeks to clear A4S after all the other groups because of the huge tp strain and in A4 savage esepcially if you're doing the strategy of letting the starf doll steal everyone's mp which means bards and mch can't play their songs and plds can't use their spells. Also in a bunch of videos I've seen the plds are only in shield oath for like 30 seconds before dropping it for the rest of the fight.

However, they have plans to make changes to the raid meta in patch 3.2 and if these changes are benefical to the paladin then only slight changes to the pld's toolkit is needed.