Never Make Your Players Have to "Find the Fun"

[Yukiko]

In 1.x we were sitting next to the fire and did some RP while waiting... the players on entrances showed us if waiting was worth or not and we could form groups with those who were interested.
I am not saying 2.x changed that much, but mostly desynced the players. We had to wait for friends to catch up with story or even to get access to the dungeons, sometimes we needed to wait hours just for one questline to finish!
3.x clearly have focus on 12h/day players and it feels like you barely can keep up with one Job. After finishing some dailys you are already out of time and there were no "helping friends" or "Roleplay on fire" moments...
While in 2.x it felt like stairs: One dungeon unlocks the next one... 3.x feels like daily grinding without interaction, its more like working on a checklist and does not feel like gaming any more!

The Problem isn't the stairs design, but the rewards -> we having too many currencies, that is not normal...

[Radacci]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

I don't think it should be up to the community to fix a game - SE has developers, those developers should be able to come up with fun stuff to do.
It's about money, and fun isn't in the budget, only profit - fun costs to much time and money - better to spend that on big titles instead.

[MistakeNot]

I feel like I'm in a straight jacket juggling all these timers. Suppose I want to do everything in the game, what would my play routine look like?

If you want to do absolutely everything in the game you will have trouble, with or without timers. Which is why the vast majority of players don't even try to do everything - it is just too much work.

[Felis]

In 1.x we were sitting next to the fire and did some RP while waiting... the players on entrances showed us if waiting was worth or not and we could form groups with those who were interested.

It was faster to just shout for party in Ul'dah.
The majority who showed up at the entrances of the dungeons and primal fights where already in a party they formed in Ul'dah.

[Yukiko]

It was faster to just shout for party in Ul'dah.
The majority who showed up at the entrances of the dungeons and primal fights where already in a party they formed in Ul'dah.

Depending when you compare, post 1.2 or not...

Edit:
Hydra as example was easier to go to entrance (same with hamlet defence), but most groups were searching both, one on entrance while an other was recruiting in uldah...

[DragonFlyy]

This game feels like a bloody chore to me, and that is why I haven't done anything worthwhile in game for quite a long time. But hey, I'm just one player. Take it for what you want.

When the game feels like this, it is no longer a game for you. Take a break, either temporarily or permanently.

On one issue, the gating of things, if there was no gates on it then you would be here asking why there is nothing to do since you did it all and the devs can't keep up. I hate time gated material, but I understand it's need. It will either be time gated, or major grind (no relic is not a major grind. Check original Everquest hell levels and epic quests. Took my cousin something like 6 months to get his monk epic ... most of which was waiting for a single mob to spawn.)

[Archaell]

The Time Gate Paradox - Forcing you to do the content while discouring you from doing it... too much.

All these gates just make it harder for the new players to catch up, while kicking you out of the content if you dare to change your main job.

Imagine that you would like to do savage on your job who is in the law gear. How long will you have to wait to have fun with the job in the savage? Long enough to change your job several times, as the alt jobs are the thing we do to avoid the boredom between the weekly lockouts.

Why can't we have soft caps instead of the hard caps?

[Kallera]

When the game feels like this, it is no longer a game for you. Take a break, either temporarily or permanently.

On one issue, the gating of things, if there was no gates on it then you would be here asking why there is nothing to do since you did it all and the devs can't keep up. I hate time gated material, but I understand it's need. It will either be time gated, or major grind (no relic is not a major grind. Check original Everquest hell levels and epic quests. Took my cousin something like 6 months to get his monk epic ... most of which was waiting for a single mob to spawn.)

Not everyone who complains about gates is a content locust that will do everything instantly without them. I have certainly had my share of not capping tomes and I also get annoyed at the fact that I cannot get them when I am interested in farming them as much as I want to.

And why is it that the thing that made MMO such a niche genre somehow seen as good because they "are not as bad" as they were previously? Things that make the game not as fun to play are not features.

[Archaell]

Not everyone who complains about gates is a content locust that will do everything instantly without them. I have certainly had my share of not capping tomes and I also get annoyed at the fact that I cannot get them when I am interested in farming them as much as I want to.

And why is it that the thing that made MMO such a niche genre somehow seen as good because they "are not as bad" as they were previously? Things that make the game not as fun to play are not features.

This is definitely annoying. I spent last month leveling an alt character on the Balmung and I had so much fun doing it that I totally neglected all the weekly caps on my main character. Now I am suffering the penalty for playing the game to have fun...

Funny story, I am also weekly capped on the both characters atm. The weekly limit is so low that not even two characters are able to fill the whole week. Maybe I should start the third one! /jk

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That was the advice of a Dungeon's and Dragons DM's guide. And it's advice SE should take to heart. A typical game of FFXIV goes like this:

- Gameplay that is dictated by timers. It is time for a GATE, have to go do that. It is time for gathering nodes, have to go do that. Haven't capped esoteric tomes this week, have to go do that. Haven't gotten my Void Ark item this week, have to go do that. Haven't done my roulettes today, have to go do that. Have to check the plants. Have to enter my house so it doesn't get demolished. It's a chore list, NOT engaging gameplay.

This I can somewhat agree upon. Tomes/Scripts are perhaps the most glaringly transparent and fundamentally boring system implemented to slow player progression. Granted, I know they do so partially to prevent people from grinding it all out in a few days/weeks and leaving new players behind, but what the devs do not seem to appreciate is hardcore players will simply find workarounds-- primarily in the form of alts. I am already starting to work on leveling up a few in preparation for Specialist crap. Red Scripts is especially infuriating as I approach my Crafting endgame. Instead of being rewarded for my hard work grinding, I'm essentially told, "this will take nine months regardless of what you do, your dedication or the time invested." That is not fun.

Worst of all, it accomplishes nothing. I'm only five months into playing this game and still have to wait the same allotted time players did come Heavensward. So how exactly did Red Scripts slow them down enough to allow new crafters to close the gap? Now I want to emphasis, I'm not faulting veterans, but merely the system. If I'm willing to grind for 10+ hours a day, I should be able to catch up. That's my choice. At least then I would have something to show for my effort, whereas now I just cap 450 scripts and sit on my hands for a week.

But I digress, since this, frankly, the only portion of your post I agree with.

Roulettes are a daily activity. You have a full 24 hours to complete them from whenever they reset. What exactly do you want changed? If you cannot be bothered to find the time to do them, well, that's on you, not the game.

As for housing:

Let me guess, you're part of the player base who doesn't have a house? It sure would be great if players who aren't using their houses would vacate so the players who want the houses could put them to some better use, right?

In a word, yes. While I will not begrudge you the prerogative of how you use your house-- you bought it, do with it as you wish. Don't expect me to care when you whine about having to log in and walk inside it. Honestly, a complaint such as this pegs you as rather selfish. You are inconvenience for what, a minute every four five days? Get over it. With a limited supply, people have a right to be frustrated with players who scarily use their houses, yet cry foul if SE dares to say, "yo, use it or lose it."

- Waiting for FATES. Whenever I have to wait for a FATE, I am NOT even PLAYING the game. I am doing rl stuff or playing a different game. While this isn't entirely bad from a time management perspective (a forced break), game developers shouldn't be encouraging their players to do something else other than play their game. What if someone finds a better game while they're waiting on a FATE. Then they're like, "Hmm, play this FUN game OR continue playing a game that forces me to stare at my screen doing nothing?"

Fates generally respawn within a fifteen minute span, and there are multiple ones per zone to occupy the void. If you haven't the patience to wait, I don't know what else to say. If they were instantaneously, people would simply camp whichever one offered the most EXP and endlessly grind it. When leveling, everyone typically uses the path of least resistance.

- Waiting for groups. My Frontline queue today ON A SATURDAY was 3 HOURS. Was I even playing the game during this timeframe? No. I was reading a book. The book was more fun and doesn't require a sub. Also, for the past 2 weeks, I've repeatedly joined or made PF groups for A1S. It's an easy turn now that people are geared and know the fight, yet what happens is it takes 1+ hrs to find a group, usually 30 min wiping, then the group disbands. Again, this is not compelling gameplay - it's just another purposeless waiting game. I don't have a static and a static is not practical for me at this time because of a changing schedule. I don't think a static should be REQUIRED just to play the game.

I will grant you, PvP queues are dreadful most hours of the day, which is something SE hopes to alleviate with The Feast. It cannot be entirely helped FFXIV caters to a primarily PvE centric playerbase, thereby making them less interested in PvP content by extension. Put simply, people don't want to do it, so the queues are long.

As for your PF complaints, there is not much Square can do. Even your proposed solution will not change the fact NA/EU players aren't nearly as keen helping one another, especially on content deemed "old." Ultimately, I do agree there needs to be more mid-core content, however that will not necessarily change the spectrum. Still, open world bosses that actually possess a challenge is something I would like to see FFXIV explore, if only to give people options.