Never Make Your Players Have to "Find the Fun"

[Purrfectstorm]

That was the advice of a Dungeon's and Dragons DM's guide. And it's advice SE should take to heart. A typical game of FFXIV goes like this:

- Gameplay that is dictated by timers. It is time for a GATE, have to go do that. It is time for gathering nodes, have to go do that. Haven't capped esoteric tomes this week, have to go do that. Haven't gotten my Void Ark item this week, have to go do that. Haven't done my roulettes today, have to go do that. Have to check the plants. Have to enter my house so it doesn't get demolished. It's a chore list, NOT engaging gameplay.

FIX: Deemphasize content that can only be done at certain times or in certain timeframes. Leave nodes as is (to preserve item rarities), decrease the frequency that players have to check plants, and use RNG instead of time gates to slow progression. That way players can play WHEN they WANT. I feel like FFXIV is telling me when/how to play. I won't continue playing if this pattern continues (yes it has been like this since launch BUT it has gotten worse with every added game system; i.e. it's not just tomes anymore).

- Waiting for FATES. Whenever I have to wait for a FATE, I am NOT even PLAYING the game. I am doing rl stuff or playing a different game. While this isn't entirely bad from a time management perspective (a forced break), game developers shouldn't be encouraging their players to do something else other than play their game. What if someone finds a better game while they're waiting on a FATE. Then they're like, "Hmm, play this FUN game OR continue playing a game that forces me to stare at my screen doing nothing?"

FIX: When players get a quest that requires a FATE, an NPC appears for them in the FATE location, and talking to that NPC triggers the FATE if it is not already up. Players won't be happy with reduced wait times alone. Any nonzero amount of sitting around bored is simply unacceptable.

- Waiting for groups. My Frontline queue today ON A SATURDAY was 3 HOURS. Was I even playing the game during this timeframe? No. I was reading a book. The book was more fun and doesn't require a sub. Also, for the past 2 weeks, I've repeatedly joined or made PF groups for A1S. It's an easy turn now that people are geared and know the fight, yet what happens is it takes 1+ hrs to find a group, usually 30 min wiping, then the group disbands. Again, this is not compelling gameplay - it's just another purposeless waiting game. I don't have a static and a static is not practical for me at this time because of a changing schedule. I don't think a static should be REQUIRED just to play the game.

FIX: More non-instanced content (to have something FUN to do while waiting), remove lockouts or move to a CT, Void Ark-like lockout to increase player availability for groups, improve content rewards (in respect to Frontline), and generally add more mid-core content (so endgame is not just a 4-turn raid).


Summary
I think there is growing discontent w/ the status quo, so why not change things up? Players want compelling gameplay not chore lists, waiting games, and mindless grinds just for the sake of slowing progression to get them to sub longer.

Right now FFXIV is modeled almost entirely on extrinsic rather than intrinsic rewards. That is getting a new minion, mount, achievement, piece of gear, some other useless trinket is fun, but the activities that lead to those rewards are not very fun.

To make the game more intrinsically fun, we need deeper gameplay. Game depth comes from things like player choice (gear options, character builds, battle strategies). Right now 99% of player choice is "what is the most efficient way to get the most amount of chores done?"

We also need more fun content. My favorite content is dungeons but dungeons are boring lately. We need more dungeons like AV or AK. I think 24-person raids are just the worst. They are trolly cesspools of stupidity that last 45 min to 1 hr. We need content to make our chores less repetitive. Why have there been no more 8-person main story dungeons since 2.0? Main Story Roulette is just 2 duties! No good.

TL;DR - Players want to see more depth, more creativity, more engaging gameplay and less standing around bored, less waiting for x to happen, and less building our game routines around a repetitive list of chores. What this game does have going for it is the world and the fact that it's a very pretty game. I think crafting/gathering is more fun than in other games. But right now I don't think this will hold me for much longer if things don't change.

[RainDurell]

This is entirely your opinion, and that's cool, but the reason the system exists is because the system works.
I personally don't mind waiting for FATEs (I rarely need to wait for FATEs anyway), and your entire first paragraph is not a bad thing in the slightest. Weekly and daily limits exist for a good reason, and I, and plenty of others, have no problem with the current system.

...However I don't mean adding new interesting not-instanced stuff is a bad thing! Hey I'm all for new content :P

Oh and if you need to remember to enter your house so it doesnt get demolished... Maybe you don't need the house after all?

[Skivvy]

This is entirely your opinion, and that's cool, but the reason the system exists is because the system works.

Eeehhh, it's an easy way out. Instead of making content that will actually hold its own, they put in restrictions (lock-outs, timers, etc) to make it stretch.

I feel the game really needs to rethink it's strategy as it's getting stale real fast.

[PArcher]

Eeehhh, it's an easy way out. Instead of making content that will actually hold its own, they put in restrictions (lock-outs, timers, etc) to make it stretch.

I feel the game really needs to rethink it's strategy as it's getting stale real fast.

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

[Skivvy]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

Well, funny thing is, I'm not a game designer. Heaven forbid I have an actual opinion regarding current game play without someone trying to shoot me down because I don't provide alternative options. Honestly, I don't know how they could fix it, but they need to.

This game feels like a bloody chore to me, and that is why I haven't done anything worthwhile in game for quite a long time. But hey, I'm just one player. Take it for what you want.

[DragonFlyy]

This game feels like a bloody chore to me, and that is why I haven't done anything worthwhile in game for quite a long time. But hey, I'm just one player. Take it for what you want.

When the game feels like this, it is no longer a game for you. Take a break, either temporarily or permanently.

On one issue, the gating of things, if there was no gates on it then you would be here asking why there is nothing to do since you did it all and the devs can't keep up. I hate time gated material, but I understand it's need. It will either be time gated, or major grind (no relic is not a major grind. Check original Everquest hell levels and epic quests. Took my cousin something like 6 months to get his monk epic ... most of which was waiting for a single mob to spawn.)

[Purrfectstorm]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

I made suggestions to how it should change. And we don't need anything as extreme as a .000000001% drop chance. I remember Yoshi saying at one point that it was lockouts or RNG. I think this is such a narrow view and it's building the whole game around the people who will play 12 hours a day and have everything in a week. The game design should not revolve around the most extreme players in the population.

So many times, players have come to SE's defense with the "but it slows progression" argument. Like why do we want progression to be slowed down? Oh yeah, so players will "have something to do." How about if the game was just fun, then they would have plenty to do. This only supports my thoughts that this game relies HEAVILY on extrinsic rewards. Every argument is "well players will get everything then unsub." This is an extrinsic rewards argument. Players who think the game is fun apart from the acquisition of a reward don't and wouldn't make this argument because they do things in the game because those things are fun IN AND OF THEMSELVES. That is what it means to be INTRINSIC.

But yes, even if the game remains based only on extrinsic rewards, there are ways of slowing progression apart from time gates (if it is even desirable to "slow progression" which I don't agree with). Yes, RNG is one way. But we don't need .0000001% drop rates. We just need to calculate how much time players are putting in with the time gated content and then convert that into a RNG formula that would produce the same average time cost to players. So let's say that it would take you 10 runs to cap tomes for 1 item. You can make the RNG < 10%. Players then still run the content the same average amount of times.

Yes, players that run it more often would get geared faster. But I can't for the life of me figure out why this isn't desirable from a playerbase that complains people want things "handed to them." The players that work harder would be geared better and faster. What is wrong with this?

And if they would then unsub that tells us something very important: the game is not fun.

[Purrfectstorm]

Oh and if you need to remember to enter your house so it doesnt get demolished... Maybe you don't need the house after all?

Let me guess, you're part of the player base who doesn't have a house? It sure would be great if players who aren't using their houses would vacate so the players who want the houses could put them to some better use, right?

Except for one thing, when you buy something, you're not just buying the thing, you're buying the OPTION to use the thing. Let's say that I don't use the house ever. But then one day, I want to plant some Krakka Root. Do you think I'll have a better chance of planting the Krakka Root if I have a house already or if I don't have a house? Would you rather be the player who has a house and doesn't use it (but could if they wanted to) or the player who doesn't have a house and can't do housing related things if you wanted to?

So, yes, I have to remind myself to enter my estate now and then. Even if I'm gardening every day, it's actually entering the house that stops demolition anyway. So I wouldn't assume I'm not "using" my estate just because I'm not using the actual building. I'm not using the actual house btw and never have. There isn't a single piece of furniture in it even after all this time.

[Radacci]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

I don't think it should be up to the community to fix a game - SE has developers, those developers should be able to come up with fun stuff to do.
It's about money, and fun isn't in the budget, only profit - fun costs to much time and money - better to spend that on big titles instead.

[Lexia]

I don't think it should be up to the community to fix a game - SE has developers, those developers should be able to come up with fun stuff to do.
It's about money, and fun isn't in the budget, only profit - fun costs to much time and money - better to spend that on big titles instead.

Why do people keep saying this? This has also been pointed by other people in their post that fun is subjective. What person A finds fun, person B might find boring. This is very true for certain types of games such as MMOs. Takes for example outside of the video game realm, I find card games such a Magic or games like that very boring but other find it very fun same goes for this game.