Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[axemtitanium]

Kicked a tank today for not using Darkside (or cooldowns, or moving out of AOEs). He claimed that it made it "harder for him to hold hate on trash mobs" because he'd be out of mana. So it's not just DPS who get kicked for low DPS.

[File2ish]

Why is this allowed? Why are people allowed to play DPS like its some sort of joke class
that doesn't matter? Why did everyone turn against me when I was in the right?

Not everyone learns the optimal rotation since the majority of players don't to the most difficult endgame content; nor do they study up on it, peruse reddit/forums, or attempt to optimize their rotation on their own time. Simply because it's not required for the level of content you were doing (and that they might exclusively do).

And the reason you became the antagonist in the party's eyes is because you initially started off asking the question "is this a bot?" (I'm assuming the issue was brought up beforehand and is not visible to us, likely due to lack of initial response). You then received a negative response; in turn you give a condescending remark by simply saying "yes" (which, through the amazing world of text chat can be read in any tone the reader wants; but most will agree that this response in the given context makes you sound like a prick). After which you state you have BLM to 60 as if it were a qualifier for bringing up the issue.

Bringing up issues with people's actions (or lack thereof) just causes grief for all involved if not worded properly. Rather than "yes, you're doing it wrong and I'm telling you how to play correctly" you need to word it to imply "I am willing to give advice." It's difficult to do though, as most people will see any advice given as implying that they are being labeled "bad". But when you come off as a prick nobody will listen to you, whether you are correct or not. At least trying not to come off as condescending (it can be really difficult to pull off depending on the person's responses) usually yields better results.

All that said: bringing up an issue and trying to correct someone else's gameplay only works if the person on the receiving end is willing to take it regardless of how it's given to them. If they don't perceive their rotation as wrong there's little you can do about it. If they are willing to acknowledge mistakes or want to get better they will gladly take advice, but this usually isn't the case. It's usually less time consuming for the party to just continue on silently as it may take more time to teach the person optimal DPS than to just run as is. "Shortcuts can create long detours."

[Radacci]

Snip

Dude...if you got to lv 50, and done your job quests, you'd know you get your new skills from job quests; It would have been common sense to go see your class/job trainer.....or you could have done the unthinkable, and....ask someone...if there's new skills?
don't blame other people for your failings. what did you expect, to get a pop-up message upon log-in, to go see trainer? if there's new quests, you see them on the map - that's your notification.
it's your own fault for having tunnel vision, and missing that there's new skills, during your entire run from 50-60.

[Lanceton]

it comes down to this - is somebody NOT ALLOWED to play the game if that person ISN'T TRYING to do "optimal" output?

as a tank I try to mitigate as much as total dmg as possible
as a dps I try to dps/dodge/kite/share as much as dmg as possible
as a healer I try to keep everybody alive while dealing as much dmg as possible
I'd feel annoyed if other players do poorly but as long as the dungeon progresses, I won't say much
who am I to DECIDE what the STANDARD should be?

complain only if it's a PF group that is formed under minimum dps agreement

[Ashbury]

O don't mind people that are bad at their job. I hate when people won't even listen to advice though.

[DarkmoonVael]

I guess my whole point in the matter was, it wasn't serious enough to post on the forums since the blm wasn't the one arguing with him about it and since the issue was resolved. I was only talking about their childish fight. Not attacking him because he did chose to say something. I'm glad he did, but the fight that ensued was not necessary.

First of all, the arguments and things said by either side were not major.

Second, the thing thats concerning, is the two people paying together (who i am not sure if you know or not) who decided to knowingly let one play badly, who when called out on it, respond collectively, who then decide to kick someone. What was said did not warrent a kick.

Getting kicked for what transpired in that screenshot is more concerning than anything. Super sensitve people should not be able to hold a party hostage by majority.

[Reilyn]

Well deserved dismissal. You were rude as hell and that's not an endgame content, not even a lv.60 content.

"The DPS can be replaced huehuehue"

honestly, sure the BLM SHOULD have been using Enochian, but all I saw was the OP have a go at them with a shit attitude. He deserved the kick that he got

The golden rule is: don't be a dick.

Whatever that BLM did doesn't matter because you broke that rule.

Asking a person 'why aren't you doing X?' is now considered rude.

Fractal apparently isn't lvl60 content.

All of you are over-sensitive fools coddling the worst type of players because feelings may be vaguely hurt somehow by a simple question, or can't read.

This is why I never think much of this forum community.

In before I get banned for this too.

[Ragnorak]

This happens a lot unfortunately... I use to say something to people but nothing ever changes.. Ive been enjoying being top dps as a PLD lately while leveling makes me feel good about PLD dps lol

[Ronyx]

I had seen/met with people who had level up to 60 and had not done a single quest job of Heavenward. So they lack all the skills from 52-60. Yet they dont do that bad if they keep using rotations as they were doing up 50. Of course they new skills help but there are worst scenarios than these.

[autumn]

Let's look at the facts shall we?...snip (from page 6)

I have to say I think TheUltimateSeph has some valid points here. With the amount of content the game offers and presents to you it's very easy to miss things, especially if you're new to the genre and don't take an interest in things like patchnotes. Personally I read them because I'm obsessed with the game and can't wait to see what's added but I can totally appreciate that not everyone wants to take (or has the) time to read them. I don't expect anyone to know exactly what to expect from a game like this.When it came to skills I found reading the tooltips gave me an understanding of the ability, but weaving it into my rotations effectively took me more time. Maybe I'm a little slower or less intelligent than some, that's cool by me, I spent ages pouring over the dragoon advice thread and trying to work out and remember what all the abbreviations were and how they related to the icons in game and how I could shift my toolbars to optimal positions. I know I took a while to work out how to combine what I had and piece it all together to output some decent damage and I'm pretty sure many parties would have seen me in my learning phase and thought "he could be doing this better" but now i'm at a place where I know what I'm doing and despite knowing I could do some things better feel confident in my abilities. It definitely took me a while though. I think everyone has to accept there's a wide range of players out there with varying skills, abilities and interests and without knowing exactly who is on the other end behind the avatar in game I don't like to assume anything.

With regards to the OPs situation, the main issue I have with players in duty finder telling each other what they should be doing is often the aggressive nature of it. Not necessarily just the one giving advice (which can often be barbed and insulting) but the defensive replies that come back giving the impression they don't want to learn. Personally if I feel I can give some advice I first ask if they would like my take on it and if they don't then I leave them to it so as not to start an argument and upset them. It may seem defeatists but maybe because I've offered advice they may think there is something wrong with their rotation/dps/tactics and go away and look something up. Often we end up having a convo about it through the dungeon. I'd say both parties here could have handled the situation a bit more gracefully but it is what it is and it happens an awful lot in DF so you're not alone.