Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Stupiduglytaru]

I was the healer in this group, first like me start out by saying it would have been better if you suggested to the BLM to use Enochian instead of putting them on the spot and asking them repeatedly why they didn't use it. After you said something, she started using it

. The reason the tank said those things was because they were in the same FC. I'll go out on a limb and say they are a couple. Yes, the first boss was taking forever, but there are a lot of new players around now and BLM was her first 60.

This was Fractal, it's not super hard and doesn't require people to know the ends and outs of their jobs. People learn at their own pace. if you want to suggest something they are doing wrong then that's fine. If they change, great! If not, either leave or just stay for the ride.

Pls this is a level 60 dungeon, not a leveling dungeon.

[Jim_Berry]

Pls this is a level 60 dungeon, not a leveling dungeon.

Just because it's a Lv60 dungeon still don't mean there are Lv60 experienced players in that dungeon. I remember when I first hit Lv60 and first entered Fractal. As a NIN, the other DPS talked crap as if I knew what was going on. In my own defense, when I enter content for the first time, I need to take it easy and know what and what not to do/expect. And many of my first time experiences were me asking people if there's anything I should know, but they never say nothing but "git gud".

Saying "git gud" is actually becoming overused and makes some players not give a crap if the community is already making them feel like crap rather than giving them advice instead of putitng them on blast.

*EDIT*
When I was doing Thordan Ex for the first time, since the first solo Knight is a dps check, I would burn my CDs to help stop him. Instead of the group letting me know that I didn't need to do that, the first line in chat was, "jim dont be dumb. hold your cds".

Not going to lie; if you catch me AFTER I've been playing straight for a couple hours, I'll get a little lazy. Not "only use one combo" lazy, but I may let dots drop when I'm in a dungeon; I'll NEVER queue up for a Primal if I'm on Lazy Mode, though.

[RiceisNice]

Just because it's a Lv60 dungeon still don't mean there are Lv60 experienced players in that dungeon. I remember when I first hit Lv60 and first entered Fractal. As a NIN, the other DPS talked crap as if I knew what was going on. In my own defense, when I enter content for the first time, I need to take it easy and know what and what not to do/expect.

This is in regards to the dungeon itself though, not the job mechanics. Even before you stepped in, you alreayd have knowledge on how to use your mudras and armor crush to extend hueton, maybe even do it from the flank instead of rear.

Saying "git gud" is actually becoming overused and makes some players not give a crap if the community is already making them feel like crap rather than giving them advice instead of putitng them on blast.

No one in this thread had said to "gut gud" or anything along the means, as opposed to knowing the functions of your job.

When I was doing Thordan Ex for the first time, since the first solo Knight is a dps check, I would burn my CDs to help stop him. Instead of the group letting me know that I didn't need to do that, the first line in chat was, "jim dont be dumb. hold your cds".

How is this relevant to the topic? It feels like you're just speaking out of a bad experience than contribuiting to what's going in the topic.

[Jim_Berry]

This is in regards to the dungeon itself though, not the job mechanics. Even before you stepped in, you alreayd have knowledge on how to use your mudras and armor crush to extend hueton, maybe even do it from the flank instead of rear.

Perhaps I left out some text. Basically, someone above mention that a player should have knowledge of their skills by this time. What if I told you someone had been doing that dungeon a bunch on their other 3 Lv60 jobs, and JUST learned all their 52-60 abilites in one go prior to entering the dungeon? It still does not mean folks should be attacked on a job just because YOU'RE a Vet at that same job. Personally, I'm the type where if I dislike how NINs don't use Kassatsu + Doton in a dungeon on 4+ mobs, I just stay on NIN and do it myself, rather than provoking the other NIN.

No one in this thread had said to "gut gud" or anything along the means, as opposed to knowing the functions of your job.

I never said no one in this thread said it, either. However, we all know when someone tell you to "git gud", it's almost the same as, "Hey, you're doing a crap job. Uninstall your game."! Take it how you want to, bruh!

How is this relevant to the topic? It feels like you're just speaking out of a bad experience than contribuiting to what's going in the topic.

Again, it was mentioned that people don't know how to play their job, use their abilities, etc. I used this as an example because when you (generally speaking) do a certain thing for a while, then people keep telling you to NOT do it, then when it's time to do it, and you don't do it because now you got people bothering you about it, you still don't do it. That person continues to bring it up rather than just saying, "Ok. I mentioned it. He's being a jerk, so forget it."

[Pence]

snip.

?The OP did nothing wrong. He asked why they weren't using it: That's probably better than saying 'I suggest you use such and such'. It's an opening for them to explain their reasoning, so you can actually address the flaws in their thinking and help them understand correctly and improve. The other players reply and attitude, and evidently playstyle? All bad.

[RiceisNice]

I was the healer in this group, first like me start out by saying it would have been better if you suggested to the BLM to use Enochian instead of putting them on the spot and asking them repeatedly why they didn't use it. After you said something, she started using it

Regardless of how it's approached, if the person in question is the unsavory kind, neither approach is going to work out. You either open up with an advice (which can be unsolciited) or ask them why they're doing what they're doing (which is what we have now). It's an offense if people take it as one.

This was Fractal, it's not super hard and doesn't require people to know the ends and outs of their jobs. People learn at their own pace. if you want to suggest something they are doing wrong then that's fine. If they change, great! If not, either leave or just stay for the ride.

The allagan Museum is still a level sixty dungeon, a post-end game dungeon no less. People by that point should have a general understanding of each skill as they gain it, especially in regards to BLM and DRG whose skills are all steps to their gameplay and each one progressively adds on; Enochian gives a flat damage boost (so there's no reason to not use it at all). If it was a matter of them not knowing how to use it or not using it effectively, it's a different story but I'm not getting that vibe as opposed to "mind your own business its my dps".

[FoxyAreku]

I've had similar experiences, usually with bards that refuse to use wanderer's minuet (or worse, don't know what it is, yes this has happened in 56+ dungeons x.x).

It's just the bar for DPS is set so much lower than it is for healers and tanks since this game's dungeon's are so easy and leveling doesn't teach much. It's a bit unfair, really, because you can guarantee if you have a bad tank or healer they're never gonna hear the end of it, but heaven forbid someone give criticism to a dps. :P

[Moomba33]

Well this topic has certainly exploded.

I agree that a 60 BLM not using enochian at all is pretty bad.
However, starting the conversation by asking if they were a bot didn't really set the stage for them to be receptive to advice.

To me how quickly the conversation became hostile is worse than the poor play (Not just blaming the topic creator here, the insults from the tank(?) towards him are unacceptable).

Can't really expect the community to improve when advice isn't given constructively or received graciously.

[Andrea]

Can't really expect the community to improve when advice isn't given constructively or received graciously.

Serious question though, Should it be the communities job to teach people how to play their supposedly main class when there is already a ton of stuff online?

If someone is too lazy to google "FFXIV Black Mage rotation Heavensward" then clearly they don't really want to learn and are ok with how they are playing that they most likely don't want advice.

It literally takes 10 seconds to google that.

[Moomba33]

Serious question though, Should it be the communities job to teach people how to play their supposedly main class when there is already a ton of stuff online?

If someone is too lazy to google "FFXIV Black Mage rotation Heavensward" then clearly they don't really want to learn and are ok with how they are playing that they most likely don't want advice.

It literally takes 10 seconds to google that.

Honestly? When I first started playing ARR, I never would have thought to look up a guide for playing my job well.
I'm on console with no parser so I never know how my DPS is and I mostly played with friends so I didn't have other people commenting on my performance. Looking back on it now I realize I was pretty terrible for the first few months. I only started improving once I got to 8 man content and saw other people with my job using abilities I ignored so I started making an effort to use them too. I didn't look at any actual guides until Heavensward when I wanted to see recommendations for how to incorporate new abilities.

I guess it isn't really fair to expect other people to teach you how to play, but I can certainly understand how someone could get really far without knowing. Solo instances are not punishing and if you're someone like me who mostly plays single player games looking at a job guide might just not cross your mind.