Never Make Your Players Have to "Find the Fun"

[hobostew]

I think the real problem here is that a lot of you people don't actually want to play an MMO tbh. If you don't like grinds and find grouping with others inconvenient then this genre is probably not for you.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I think the real problem here is that a lot of you people don't actually want to play an MMO tbh. If you don't like grinds and find grouping with others inconvenient then this genre is probably not for you.

Or maybe the genre itself isn't as compelling as it once was.

[hobostew]

Or maybe the genre itself isn't as compelling as it once was.

Given the OPs complaint and the general support it's getting I'm pretty sure most of these people wouldn't touch MMOs with a ten foot pole if it ever went back to its niche roots. MMOs of old were even grindier(in fact the grind was 90% of the "compelling" gameplay) and you could do almost nothing without a group.

Mind you I'd argue that since the audience of MMOs of old was so small that it couldn't have been that compelling to the vast majority of people. They were niche games for a reason.

[AnaviAnael]

Given the OPs complaint and the general support it's getting I'm pretty sure most of these people wouldn't touch MMOs with a ten foot pole if it ever went back to its niche roots. MMOs of old were even grindier(in fact the grind was 90% of the "compelling" gameplay) and you could do almost nothing without a group.

I have to agree with this. I don't think most people nowadays would want to wait 24-72 hours for a mob to spawn, which had a low drop rate for its treasure, and could only be claimed by one group.

People need to accept that grinds are part of the MMO genre. However, that doesn't mean that all grinds are equally entertaining.

[Lexia]

Given the OPs complaint and the general support it's getting I'm pretty sure most of these people wouldn't touch MMOs with a ten foot pole if it ever went back to its niche roots. MMOs of old were even grindier(in fact the grind was 90% of the "compelling" gameplay) and you could do almost nothing without a group.

Mind you I'd argue that since the audience of MMOs of old was so small that it couldn't have been that compelling to the vast majority of people. They were niche games for a reason.

I don't play a lot of MMOs they really not my style the last one I played was also by SE which was XI and compared to XIV, XI was way more of a grind then XIV will ever be so nothing in XIV really bothers me. Actually wish kind of had more elements from XI but from the posts in this thread such as OP would be creating even more complaints then.

[Purrfectstorm]

Given the OPs complaint and the general support it's getting I'm pretty sure most of these people wouldn't touch MMOs with a ten foot pole if it ever went back to its niche roots. MMOs of old were even grindier(in fact the grind was 90% of the "compelling" gameplay) and you could do almost nothing without a group.

Mind you I'd argue that since the audience of MMOs of old was so small that it couldn't have been that compelling to the vast majority of people. They were niche games for a reason.

You actually aren't understanding my complaint. I didn't complain about grinding at all. I complained about not being able to grind whenever I want because of lockouts and time gates. I have no problem with grinding. I've done 2 Zetas and finished my i210 relic last week. I grinded for every Lucis tool when they were current, have almost all my jobs at max level, and have done every quest (minus a few job quests from the non-max level jobs), including the fishing quests.

As for finding groups inconvenient, you're only half correct, because my complaint isn't so much that finding groups is inconvenient it's that time gates make finding groups MORE inconvenient than need be. For example, will people who have cleared A1S this week run it again this week? Will people who have their loot/farthing from Void Ark run that again this week? NO. SE is actively making it harder for people to find groups for content by removing players from the pool of people we could group with.

Your basic argument is the same argument that gets thrown about all the time on these forums whenever someone doesn't like something - "If you don't like one (or a few) particular things in this game then this game or this whole genre is not for you."

Now that I've broken this argument down to it's essence, I hope you can see why it's wrong; I love FFXIV and I love MMOs. I think this game could be better and, in fact, I need for it to be better, because there are many other compelling ways to spend one's time. When I quit playing, it won't necessarily be because I hate this game or this genre, it will most likely be that there are other games or activities that I find MORE enjoyable. If I had infinite money and infinite time, I wouldn't ask SE to change a thing.

I don't play a lot of MMOs they really not my style the last one I played was also by SE which was XI and compared to XIV, XI was way more of a grind then XIV will ever be so nothing in XIV really bothers me. Actually wish kind of had more elements from XI but from the posts in this thread such as OP would be creating even more complaints then.

Actually, I liked FFXI better than FFXIV, because grinds aren't my issue, as I stated above. There are reasons I play FFXIV over FFXI though - FFXIV is prettier, more populated, I got to start from the beginning (of ARR at least), and crafting is more fun (to name just a few reasons). The main thing I don't like is that I can't do the things I want to do as often as I want to do them. I'd love to grind until one job is BiS, then tackle the next job, etc. Instead, the game tells me "nope, you are done for the day or week." Sure, there are plenty of other things to do but I'm not always in the mood to do those things. I want more freedom in the game. Removing lockouts would not at all discourage me from playing because I couldn't grind enough to do everything I want to do before the next patch.

[Moomba33]

Personally I prefer time gates to RNG.
With time gates I can decide whether or not I want to bother hitting my cap for the week/day/whatever whereas with RNG my progress may be hindered by bad luck.

The only time based gates that really bother me are the ones for gathering nodes. I found them tolerable in ARR since they were only for max level crafting items for the most part. I hate that Heavensward has incorporated materials from time based nodes into leveling crafts.

[Felis]

The only time based gates that really bother me are the ones for gathering nodes. I found them tolerable in ARR since they were only for max level crafting items for the most part. I hate that Heavensward has incorporated materials from time based nodes into leveling crafts.

You can buy most of them from NPCs as NQ mats, if you mean the lv51-59 timed mats

[Moomba33]

You can buy most of them from NPCs as NQ mats, if you mean the lv51-59 timed mats

Yeah I remember seeing the tea leaves on a vendor for 1000 each or so.
I much prefer gathering my own materials though.