Never Make Your Players Have to "Find the Fun"

[Kaiser-Ace]

I have fun with things like leveling my gatherers. It's a break from combat. And I like leveling my combat classes too. (Though some I don't do dungeons with as I find the play styles annoying.)

I find the actual crafting part of crafting annoying as hell but the reward is worth it to me as it's a "No pain no gain" element for me. And learning how to make things is a chore no matter if it's online, irl, or even in another game. Crafting is always a big pain with big payout for time spent.

What I hate are Specialist Crafts and dysenth, The Node System and Aether Reduction, And The Anima and Zodiac Quests that REQUIRE them with out crafters and gatherers needing DoW/DoM for anything.

I'm all for working towards a goal but if I'm going to mindlessly grind a task for a miniscule rewards, work does that and pays ME, so I really don't want to pay someone else for the privilege of doing a full time job in their game.

I wanted Gold Saucer to succeed so bad, but between BS RNG, Dev negligence, and board wide poor execution, there is nothing in Gold Saucer worth the effort. Which makes me actually HOPE that Blitzball (My Favorite FF Minigame) never does get implemented lest they screw it up too like Triple Triad and Chocobo Racing. And gods forbid should they add it and it end up Dead on Arrival like Lords of Verminnion.

The Game is too much of a chore and not enough fun. I want to feel like I'm on an adventure not punching a timecard. And for being "Adventurers" we do little to no Adventuring. Even as the "Warrior of Light" we seem to be doing NPCs chores for them like "Please pick up my drycleaning WoL" when we're suppose to be fighting Phantom Gods, A Tyrannical Empire, and Genocidal Shadow Mages hell bent on reviving their God.

Tl:dr, This is a Game Not a Job, why does it feel like I'm on the time clock when I log in?

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

This is the WRONG genre for impatient people IMO. Got an attention span of 30 seconds? Great! Go play Call of Duty then :/

As far as the game feeling like work. I would argue the main campaign your doing mainly for fun. The endgame your doing for fun and gear. The gear is what gives you a reason to repeat the content more than once. If that feels like a job to you and your not having fun, well then technically you have already beaten the main part of the game and no1 really forcing you to do the extra stuff.

[Kaiser-Ace]

This is the WRONG genre for impatient people IMO. Got an attention span of 30 seconds? Great! Go play Call of Duty :/

My ADD is why I got fallout 4, the 30 Second Shoot outs of CoD combined with the RPG elements of Elder Scrolls. But the vast majority of my free time is spent in FF14, so I care a little more about it's future than a single player game.

[AlphaFox]

I admit I prefer the weekly limits, saves me from coming back after 1 week to people who grinded 24/7 over the time saying "Your not geared enough, go work on that". Which please don't try to defend it, you know very well people would have grinded Esos and been fully maxed within 2 days for some.

[MugenMugetsu]

Remove weekly caps....If I want to run dungeons until my eyes bleed and get all the tomes I can, then why not? We have 13 DoW/DoM jobs and some of us are interested in gearing more than just one job at a time. There's no need to restrict us from being able to properly gear more than one job at a time other than to gate progression in an attempt to make sure we remain subbed for as long as possible. I feel that if the game truly is worthy of a long term sub, gating would be unnecessary as we would have other reasons to want to play then just simply wanting to make sure we do our dailies, and get our weekly drops. I also feel that the one drop a week Void Ark restriction should be removed, but I know that's coming very soon so I won't complain too much about that.

I do, however, fear that even 5 years from now the treadmill will still be in place and nothing will have changed. Oh well. Here's to hoping that community outcries will be enough to one day change the boring repetitive system so we can see some new, more innovative, ways to acquire gear progression.

I love the game and will continue to remain subbed, I'm just getting tired of having so many limits imposed on us for no good reason.

[AeraLure]

Gameplay that is dictated by timers. It is time for a GATE, have to go do that. It is time for gathering nodes, have to go do that. Haven't capped esoteric tomes this week, have to go do that. Haven't gotten my Void Ark item this week, have to go do that. Haven't done my roulettes today, have to go do that. Have to check the plants. Have to enter my house so it doesn't get demolished. It's a chore list, NOT engaging gameplay.

FIX: Deemphasize content that can only be done at certain times or in certain timeframes. Leave nodes as is (to preserve item rarities), decrease the frequency that players have to check plants, and use RNG instead of time gates to slow progression. That way players can play WHEN they WANT. I feel like FFXIV is telling me when/how to play. I won't continue playing if this pattern continues (yes it has been like this since launch BUT it has gotten worse with every added game system; i.e. it's not just tomes anymore).

Amen. This is my problem with the game. In order to progress, everything is gated and capped in such a way that it really just feels like a chore to play and do. Part of it I realize is the very limited content in which to do so, but in a larger more general sense, the tome system as currently designed really doesn't not inspire fun. The fun I have had with the end game comes from friends in a few LS and the FC. Not the content. I even unsubbed once, even though I'm relatively new to the game (compared to beta and original ARR players) and I don't know if I can stomach a new tome and a repetition of this design. We'll see. I'm working away at it, but, emphasis on work, as I agree with OP that it really doesn't feel like play most of the time.

Remove weekly caps....If I want to run dungeons until my eyes bleed and get all the tomes I can, then why not? We have 13 DoW/DoM jobs and some of us are interested in gearing more than just one job at a time. There's no need to restrict us from being able to properly gear more than one job at a time other than to gate progression in an attempt to make sure we remain subbed for as long as possible. I feel that if the game truly is worthy of a long term sub, gating would be unnecessary as we would have other reasons to want to play then just simply wanting to make sure we do our dailies, and get our weekly drops. I also feel that the one drop a week Void Ark restriction should be removed, but I know that's coming very soon so I won't complain too much about that.

This would help. Not a complete fix, but I might actually start playing other jobs again. As it stands now, having returned from a hiatus, I have retired everything but my main. It's enough to try to get a full tome set and upgrade it for one job, get the relic for one job, and do some crafting and gathering to pay for what the job needs. A second job can be decently equipped as a side result of VA weekly runs for farthings, but not so much if you wish to have multiple jobs in tome gear.

As for the RNG thing, I know most people hate it and condemn it, but I'm with the OP on opinion about it. I know the model is not likely to change for FFXIV, so my example is merely rhetorical, but I loved Phantasy Star Online and its sequels. RNG goodness, yes, but the thing that made me play the game for thousands of hours between editions (and I'd still be playing if only it would get localized again) is that even with its limited content it was always fun to play through things you played a million times because you might get that really rare thing you've been wanting a long time, you might see a rare enemy spawn, but quite often you're going to get some things you already have but it better versions - and - you could still play the game just fine not having max equipment. I think the one lesson FFXIV could learn is that tomes aren't really great motivational rewards for replaying the same content a million times. There needs to be an edge of excitement present each time you run it. PSO had it. FFXIV does not.

That was the advice of a Dungeon's and Dragons DM's guide. And it's advice SE should take to heart.

And this is a fantastic reference. I remember reading that when preparing to DM my first campaign. The reason I love FFXIV is that they do some fights well and they are fun for a little while, but mostly, it's the people I meet and become friends with - and running the same old things with them. That's what keeps me playing. Granted, I'm in a sense creating my own fun through the presence of the people I wish to play with. I think SE could perhaps find some better solutions. Sometimes it feels like even though they design the content, they don't actually play it for months on end non stop like we do, else I think perhaps they'd design it a bit differently.

Finally I want to add: you only criticize what you love. If you don't love it, why bother? Just leave it behind. Things I might say about the game don't mean I am negative about it per se. It just means I can clearly see things I don't like about it and wish would be improved. For whatever reason the OP struck a chord with some of my feelings about the game and why I unsubbed in the first place, although I am indeed back.

[Judge_Xero]

That was the advice of a Dungeon's and Dragons DM's guide.

I don't understand. SE basically puts up lighted neon signs with huge arrows that say "this way to fun".

In D&D you may not of had to find the fun but you did have to create it, so you may have the context all wrong especially comparing to a theme park MMO.

[Kallera]

The OP hits the nail on the head. A lot of the content that is coming for 3.2 feels like noise at this point. I mean, is materia and the latest tomes really going to be that much of a gamemaker?

[hobostew]

I think the real problem here is that a lot of you people don't actually want to play an MMO tbh. If you don't like grinds and find grouping with others inconvenient then this genre is probably not for you.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I think the real problem here is that a lot of you people don't actually want to play an MMO tbh. If you don't like grinds and find grouping with others inconvenient then this genre is probably not for you.

Or maybe the genre itself isn't as compelling as it once was.