The arrogance of some people

[Fevelle]

Wait wait wait......are you saying a Healer should DPS? Guys it's over, we won!

No, I'm saying the only reason we unfortunately need to DPS in some cases, is because of lacking DPS players. Expecting a healer to put up damage to cover your low numbers is more lazy than a healer that does not DPS.

[Judah_Brandt]

No, I'm saying the only reason we unfortunately need to DPS in some cases, is because of lacking DPS players. Expecting a healer to put up damage to cover your low numbers is more lazy than a healer that does not DPS.

D......did you not even read the rest of my post?

[Kurogaea]

D......did you not even read the rest of my post?

I read the rest and you made it sound like healers are trolls for not dpsing during high end raids. Not our fault you don't meet requirements, place the blame where it belongs.

[Kurogaea]

Oh you must be referring to the part where I said that if the DPS player's numbers are low they need to not be in raid content? Yep. I can see how that could've been misconstrued as a shot at healers. Then later when I said that the healer DPS isn't necessary what with the higher ilvl items being available? Yep, definitely a shot at healers there. The part where I said that healers could help the group out by DPSing to make the fight less strenuous? Yeah, wow, what a dick I am.

Uhh, actually it was this part.

Healer DPS at this point actually isn't even required due to the gear available, but it's always welcomed because why make things harder for everyone on purpose?

It's not making it harder for everyone else. If its already hard for a dps to meet requirements for a raid then its their fault, not the healers. Healer dps in raids is a luxury, not a requirement.

[Iagainsti]

It's not making it harder for everyone else. If its already hard for a dps to meet requirements for a raid then its their fault, not the healers. Healer dps in raids is a luxury, not a requirement.

That's a fail; sorry to say, but the root of the word "luxury" is middle English meaning "excess". I do not believe there is such a thing as excess damage when we're talking top tier raiding. This comes back to utilizing your full tool kit. While the Devs have stated healer damage was not calculated into Alex Savage or Thordan ex, that does not mean it's excessive to refresh dots and pop CS during opportunity windows such as cast bars, etc. Again this has been echoed over 100 pages now, but don't pigeon-hole Healer classes because that was not how the classes were designed.

[KaitlanKela]

While the Devs have stated healer damage was not calculated into Alex Savage or Thordan ex...

I want to comment on this because Yoshi clarified this statement in a recent interview.

1. They DO consider Healer DPS: just the minimum DPS that they do when they're healing: Think Assize, or the DPS increase that comes with Fey Wind, etc.
2. They first set a minimum iLvl required for clearing. It is NOT the minimum iLvl for entry. The raids are designed to NOT be clearable until some new gear somes out. However, they CAN be cleared at minimum if the Healer/Tank DPS. In conclusion:

Excess Healer DPS IS required to clear at the initial iLvl

[Iagainsti]

Excess Healer DPS IS required to clear at the initial iLvl

Thank you for the clarification, either I had not read that or missed it if it had been posted here. I still have a problem with the word "Excees" though, because it doesn't really define healer damage in top tier raids, where I'd say any damage is necessary damage to complete the clear, I don't think it's overkill.

[Ghishlain]

1. They DO consider Healer DPS: just the minimum DPS that they do when they're healing: Think Assize, or the DPS increase that comes with Fey Wind, etc.

FYI, later in the interview, Yoshi-P says this (I've included your quote as well just for context):

Let's get right into it - we've seen many posts from readers relating to end-game content. When you go through development, how do you decide how to set the difficulty? For example, the amount of DPS required for each particular content.

Yoshida: When we make battle content, first we determine a minimum assumed item level required to clear. Then, we determine the total amount of party damage required to clear, taking a minimal amount of damage from tanks and healers into account during this calculation.

What do you mean by minimal?

Yoshida: Basically it's the damage from tank auto-attacks and the basic skill rotation used in order to maintain hate. We add this to the party damage needed. However, we often use zero in the calculation for damage required from healers. In other words, we only take into account the amount of damage necessary to perform as a tank or a healer and we don't take them into account as actively participating in attacking. For the clear assumption on DPS, we calculate the 100% value for the item level and we reduce that by 10 to 15 percent for the amount required to clear.

I don't really want to put my foot into this debate because I've done it to death on the healer forum, and I don't intend to sift through 1K+ posts of what I'm pretty certain is the same thing as discussed there. But just wanted to present the entire quote so everyone can understand the context it was written in.

Source of mine and KaitlanKela's quotes - Slycer translation on BG of 4gamer interview.