The arrogance of some people

[Lexia]

I will try once again to summarize this for people:

If you do not DPS as a healer 99/100 people are not going to care and just let you carry on. Nobody is attacking your personal preference or your playstyle. Do what you're going to do.

People are just trying to say that if you arbitrarily self-impose a limit on yourself, you will not be the best player you can be. The game gives you healing and dps, it gives you objectives, it gives you priorities. It does NOT tell you how to play your character. It done not impose any limits on how you use your kit, what spells to hit and what spells to avoid. If you don't use your whole toolkit appropriately, you are either 1. learning 2. lazy or 3.bad. Nobody's saying you CAN'T be learning, lazy or bad, get out we don't want your kind here. We're only trying to encourage players who DO try to be the best they can be to not limit themselves for NO REASON.

The end.

That goes so much further then the scope of this game that like life in general there so many people in the world that don't do their full potential and how people do stuff in RL going to come into play in the game also.

[Kallera]

I answered that in the first paragraph of this post. Also, a SCH's DPS can be very close with that of a DPS role, so it IS quite substantial.

Doesn't cut into the worth of a dps then? If the other roles have jobs that can do damage comparable to a dps job, well that sounds like a good idea for people tired of dps players.

Why do these threads always end up the same way?

[Odett]

Doesn't cut into the worth of a dps then?

There's a few pages back in this thread where someone was trying to make a point similar to this but in a very immature way. No, not at all. Your question would only make sense if there was a group cap on DPS. There isn't. If you have the tools to help you group beyond what's required of you, you should do it. It's as simple as that.

[Kallera]

There's a few pages back in this thread where someone trying to make a point similar to this but in a very immature way. No, not at all. Your question would only make sense if there was a group cap on DPS. There isn't. If you have the tools to help you group beyond what's required of you, you should do it. It's as simple as that.

Alright, I understand. But I give this lesson about a week before the trinity starts blaming each other again, its like the airline food joke of forum threads.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Doesn't cut into the worth of a dps then? If the other roles have jobs that can do damage comparable to a dps job, well that sounds like a good idea for people tired of dps players.

Why do these threads always end up the same way?

Because people hate having others do their job for them. Or perhaps because people hate DPS classes, and only deal with them because theyhave to.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Doesn't cut into the worth of a dps then? If the other roles have jobs that can do damage comparable to a dps job, well that sounds like a good idea for people tired of dps players.

Why do these threads always end up the same way?

I say we should save our replies and just copypasta everything over and over again whenever the subject comes up.

[Niwashi]

Just wanted to come in and ask that, how does fulfilling your role as a healer by not letting people die while dishing out as much DPS as you can, not make you a better player than someone who just keeps everyone alive? (You are right that it does not make you a better healer though, so that I can agree with)

Then you go to state that it increases the likelihood of error, and yet if that healer continues to perform their required task (keeping everyone alive) plus any additional tasks (DPS) then that would definitely mean they are a better player.

It doesn't make them a better player because they're unnecessarily making the run harder on the rest of their team, and increasing the chances of a wipe. Sure, if the rest of the team are all great players and on the top of their game and nothing goes wrong, then they can often survive in spite of that healer, but that's not something for healers to be congratulating themselves so much on.

By doing the minimum healing necessary, and keeping them just above the KO point except when you expect major incoming damage, you're removing the safety net. If the tank is at 20% health, and that's fine with you because nothing he's likely to get hit by soon does more damage than that, but then he mis-judges a dodge, or gets a sudden lag spike, or whatever, and takes some hits that he wasn't expected to take, then all of a sudden you have a dead tank. If you'd been keeping him at 90% and those same unexpected problems came up, maybe they'd just knock him down from 90% to 50% where you could readily take care of it and the run would continue on smoothly without interruption.

Most of the time a safety net isn't needed, and you can manage a lot of clears even without it. And when it is needed is when something else went wrong, so you can always try and just blame the result on whatever that "something else" was. But if you'd done any less than you could have to protect your team from things going wrong, then the truth is that you're partly to blame for the results of anything in the run going wrong. Your job as a healer, or indeed as a member of a party, is to protect the rest of the team and do your best to ensure its success. As a healer, that generally means that when there is any healing or buffing you could do that would in any way increase the resilience of your teammates or yourself, then that's what you should be doing. There are occasional exceptions, of course, like when a bit of extra DPS would help with clearing a mechanic. After all, clearing mechanics can be more important to the team's safety than an extra buff. But for the most part, DPS is just a way of filling in down time when you'd otherwise have nothing productive to do.

And sure, some people like the challenge of playing without a safety net. It forces them to either be at their best or die, which can be exciting. But in spite of many people liking that extra difficulty, when discussing how good of a player someone is, it's generally about how well they can make the run go rather than about how difficult they can make the run.

[Kaurie]

By doing the minimum healing necessary, and keeping them just above the KO point except when you expect major incoming damage, you're removing the safety net. If the tank is at 20% health, and that's fine with you because nothing he's likely to get hit by soon does more damage than that, but then he mis-judges a dodge, or gets a sudden lag spike, or whatever, and takes some hits that he wasn't expected to take, then all of a sudden you have a dead tank. If you'd been keeping him at 90% and those same unexpected problems came up, maybe they'd just knock him down from 90% to 50% where you could readily take care of it and the run would continue on smoothly without interruption.
.

Again, we are not saying to keep the tank at 20%, we are saying to let him drop down that much. There is no reason to just let him sit at 20%, but there is also no reason to cure him when he is at 90%.

And sure, some people like the challenge of playing without a safety net. It forces them to either be at their best or die, which can be exciting. But in spite of many people liking that extra difficulty, when discussing how good of a player someone is, it's generally about how well they can make the run go rather than about how difficult they can make the run.

That is precisely what we are saying. A healer dishing out DPS will make a run go more well, and less difficult.

[Judge_Xero]

I would never want to imply to anyone that I party with that it is ok to stand in fire. Thus by removing that safety net I give them the proper message on what I expect as a healer.

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It is also very interesting that all the job story lines tell you how the Dev team envisioned it's play style. If you didn't get the notion from the Healer stories that killing things in within your capability then I'm not sure what to say.

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Not to mention that healers have always had some level of offensive abilities in the FF Universe.

[KaitlanKela]

snip.

Okay, here's my response and you kinda just repeated things and said them long-winded, so I'll just sum it up.

Letting the tank dip to 20% while dpsing and then healing him to 100% IS keeping a safety net. A good healer assesses the rate at which their health is falling and how much "time" they have before the safety net is insufficient each and every time they commit to another DPS spell. If the tank is good, their health drains at a steady rate. If they take shock damage from failing a mechanic or standing in an AoE, in your situation that's the healer's fault for not "anticipating unexpected" damage.Meaning I should expect my tank to eat AoEs and babysit them? I will do that if necessary, although I CERTAINLY don't expect to and I will ABSOLUTELY tell the tank that it was their fault if they attempt to use your reasoning and blame it on me. It's not automatically the healer's fault if someone dies/there's a wipe. There are four people on a team, sometimes other people screw up. Why does the healer have to take the fall? If a healer lets the tank drop and then heals them to full without dying the only person who's job is "harder" is the healer's. They are in NO way making the run more difficult. In fact, they are making the trash die faster = better run = good player, by your logic.