The arrogance of some people

[Kosmos992k]

As I said in my post I get that people can be new and not great as a healer. Im fully ok with people taking their time and learning the basics first, those aren't really the healers I have problems with. We were all there at a stage after all , weren't we?

The healers I have a problem with are those geared in 210 and will sit around doing nothing or even jumping around while the party takes no damage.If you have time to jump around and run about you have the time to dot enemies. If people are happy to sit around doing nothing for 30-60 seconds at a time fine, it is their choice, I can't force people to play in a certain way. It also is my choice to consider those people lazy.

Completely agreed, and I apologize for any miscommunication or misunderstanding.

[Ranzan]

After tanking for a while now. I give no damn now in DF just jeep me alive. I get more healers that let me die to dps than I get the idle heal only people. This game has too many excuses for dps being bad that this game needs to jump down dps's throats for not know rotations properly using CD right. We already demanding healers and tanks to do their roles and then some. It's not really good balance is two out three roles have to fill in 2 at a time.

[AeraLure]

This is a problem I have faced as PLD many times, when sub-par dps means adds take too long to die, and I take far more damage than I would with better DPS, and for a much longer time. That puts pressure on the healer's MP, as does the feequency with which the DPS players stand in stupid. Unless the 'nice to have' extra DPS that a healer can safely provide, offsets the lack of real DPS, it's not going to alter that situation. The healer wil OOM because of the duration of the fight and the MP spent on supplementting the DPS.

That's just a gearing shortfall or inexperience on the healer's part (speaking only for WHM though, which is my main). You can heal and DPS all day as a WHM with select use of cheap heals (DS, Regen, Cure, Cure II) and do full time DPS. Trick is just alternating Shroud at the right time with Assize. When the one is down the other is coming back. Unless the DPS is way under, you're doing heals and DPS yourself, AND you have to do some ressing, you're not running out. You may need to occasionally back off on a rotation as Assize won't give you as much as Shroud, but you can keep it up. Finished Saints boss 3 just myself and Paladin when we lost the two DPS. You can go forever. Yeah, it won't be fast, but mana won't be a problem for an experienced WHM.

Again though, you get there with practice. A newer WHM won't be doing that. I didn't. Early on I held back on Shroud, healed too soon, didn't utilize Regen as much as I could. Divine Seal was a safety button. Cleric Stance was scary because it seemed like I was always needing Cure handy. We were all there once.

[Kaurie]

I just want to know, in all honesty from the people defending Healers not using DPS in their downtime, would you still defend a tank who back tanked while using flash, not DPSing, or only using a single hate move even. Maybe a Melee standing in an AoE that would otherwise force him to move out of range, so he can max out the dps, knowing healers are only healing and would be able to cure through it. Would you defend a Bard who only wanted to play the support side and purely sang songs without shooting or the other way around?

I think we can all agree, that as it's the tank job to hold hate, once they have hate they are entitled to stand there and watch the mob die in front of them. Further, it's not the DPS job to heal themselves, thus they can stand in all the AoEs they want as the healer is there to bring them back up.

If possible, at all costs, never attempt to coordinate or perform in a team-manner. Duty finder isn't for that. It's for 2 things only, bonus rewards and getting carried.

[Alahra]

Oh, no...It's escaped the Healer forums! Everybody run!

I do think a good healer will DPS when they have opportunities to do so, but if I had to choose, I would take a healer that focuses mostly on healing (or even entirely so) over one that focuses too much on DPS. I'm a bit risk-averse, though.

I tend to DPS when I heal, but my main is also a DPS, and sometimes, I play healer for a break from that, and so I focus on it a bit less, at least in less tense content, like roulettes and the like.

[Whiteroom]

I think we can all agree, that as it's the tank job to hold hate, once they have hate they are entitled to stand there and watch the mob die in front of them. Further, it's not the DPS job to heal themselves, thus they can stand in all the AoEs they want as the healer is there to bring them back up.

If possible, at all costs, never attempt to coordinate or perform in a team-manner. Duty finder isn't for that. It's for 2 things only, bonus rewards and getting carried.

This, as a tank, it is only my job to hold aggro. I don't play tank to dps or heal myself. I get aggro and stop. Dodging? I'm a tank! My HP bar is the healers concern!

[Jim_Berry]

I said it before, and I'll say it again:

"Raid-heavy players bring that mentality over to lesser content."

I don't care what anyone EXPECTS of me; my WHM will NOT dps, and my PLD will NOT wear STR accessories. I'll just play my NIN if I want to deal damage. SHEESH!!!

[Ashkendor]

No, the main part is that you can't compensate bad dps with healer's dps. Sure, healers can use cleric stance, but saying that healers have to dps just means that many of these 'pro healers' are not so pro, because healer's dps is connected with the equip and the skill level of the group (bad tank=no time for dps; dps that can't avoid aoe=no time for dps).

I actually beg to differ here. When I run my SCH with a friend's tank, if both DPS are poorly geared I just ask him to keep pulls reasonably sized so we can both maximize our damage. We both usually end up out-damaging the DPS in that case, which is fine. I get that undergeared people are in DF for tomes the same as I am and that doesn't bother me at all. I just do what I can to speed things up for everyone and in that case the healer DPS is inarguably speeding up the dungeon run.

Yes, there are situations where I can't reasonably DPS. Tanks that think they're too cool to use cooldowns make it exceedingly difficult. I was pleasantly surprised by a tank last night in Fractal that was all in i160 and i170 gear but he used his cooldowns and kept trash pulls to a reasonable size for his gear, which left me plenty of windows for DPS. DPS players standing in stupid aren't going to stop me from DPS'ing. Once or twice by accident I can accept, and I'll pop out of CS to heal if needed (hell, I don't even need to pop out of CS to use Leeches). After that they're at the mercy of Eos' whims and if they complain I'll pleasantly inform them that the floor candy is not tasty or nutritious, so could they please stop eating so much of it.

And in the moment you turn on cleric stance, one of the DPS jobs get a huge hit because he ignoed an aoe and you can't heal him up with just one heal because of clearic stance cool down.

That's what skills like Bloodbath, Life Surge, and Second Wind are for. DPS have survival tools at their disposal for those times they stand in stupid, or even when they take unavoidable damage. I've lost count of many times it's saved my skin to pop Bloodbath when huge raid-wide damage is going out. As a SCH, I typically leave healing DPS up to my fairy until the next AoE heal is needed (unless I know AoE damage or other dangerous mechanics are coming soon). As a WHM, I'll drop a Regen on them and let it do its thing (again, unless I know something is coming up that people need to be topped off for).

The entire party doesn't need to be at 100% hp 100% of the time. If the DPS sits at 50% for a little while because you're DPS'ing and you know it's safe because there's no AoE damage going out, that doesn't make you a bad healer. It means you know the encounter and you can do your job efficiently. That DPS doesn't do any less damage at 50% HP than he would at 100%. With all that said, if you aren't familiar with the fight, then yes I can see an argument for keeping the entire party topped off.

Healer DPS isn't going to take minutes off a run, it's just not that significant, so why stress so much about it?

That's patently untrue. A decently geared SCH or WHM can put out some pretty mean damage.

AST is a little less, but they can still throw some decent damage nonetheless.

[Aryalandi]

I think we can all agree, that as it's the tank job to hold hate, once they have hate they are entitled to stand there and watch the mob die in front of them. Further, it's not the DPS job to heal themselves, thus they can stand in all the AoEs they want as the healer is there to bring them back up.

If possible, at all costs, never attempt to coordinate or perform in a team-manner. Duty finder isn't for that. It's for 2 things only, bonus rewards and getting carried.

Everything wrong with duty finder mentality in a single horrifying post.

[Eylirria]

God forbid anyone to desire others to do more than being mediocre.
Let us all join hands, sing the Kumbaya and enjoy the Safespace™.