Why do so many people FAIL at dps.

[Pinkie_Pie]

Well, I wanted to make a thread about dps trying to be lazy in dungeons examples of void ark, dps just auto attacking afk, spamming one skill while semi afk and also those who just push buttons, don't watch their debuff dots or rotations etc, only to be countered claimed and bashed on based off my clear groups dps(Which I had no consent on posting them) when I did dps on whether it was tanking or dps role. Thought I did say I can pick up a dps class, fully maximize the dps and say its easy, I was wrong but it doesn't change the fact I try my very best to try to do the good dps required for the group and not be a hindrance unlike people just semi afk or not knowing their class and so on. People say they I was schooled, but to be honest I'm trying to show the trouble that's hiding infront of us that is never really discussed cause people always ignore it or counter it by saying "They pay money, they can do what they want".

You are bad at this game and the fact that it was shown in a topic complaining about other people's performance makes it so much sweeter

The performance I had in my clear groups may not be the top in the server dps as a tank or undergeared dps but it was enough for our group to clear but also showed that I did my very best to do my dps. What say to those who just afk dps in void ark or do know their class rotations let alone just not try.

As far as dungeons go, a good reason is that those who are already geared, but are grinding dungeons for ESO for maybe an alt or whatever reason, just go in, and do the bare minimum because thta's all that's required in basic lv. 60 dungeons. It's not like they're hard and require a huge amount of effort, just basic knowledge and basic rotations will get you through just fine. Even in Alex and Ark, people could do the basic necessities.

ALso, arguing about dps in 4 man dungeons is just stupid unless they're just auto attacking *only* or is afk. The dungeons can almost be 2 manned now.

When doing alex floor 1, we had 3 dps not even care to dps, mostly just doing afk rotations or macros, the boss enraged 3 times before the veto happened. In the level 60 dungeons when tanking the bombs required to die, had a brd semi afk just spamming straight shot and a few skills here and there, bombs never died fast enough leaving them to blow up in our face, healer was new so it was a wipe, this happened 2 times. When confronted he said "I know what I'm doing"

Clearly you guys fell into OP's bait. This here is a troll thread.

When ever anyone tries to bring up a discussion in a topic that is true, they think its bait or some kind of troll thread when events like this on dps being semi afk or not caring or not knowing their class truly does happen.

Quit throwing things out of context. There's no reason for you to be dying to avoidable damage if you care about not being a waste of a party slot. The person you're replying to isn't even talking about deaths in general (which at times can be out of your control), but deaths that you yourself caused (Not getting yourself killed). On top of that, being undergeared is a liability to your survival anyway, and on top of that Thordan has a Ilvl requirement so unless you're boosting your Ilvl with accessories (which is a different problem), you can't be undergeared.

I threw things out of context when someone posted my logs without my consent and now everyone is using that against me, saying I shouldn't have a voice to speak out about this, and that I am a troll or this is bait, yes, I did die in my fight, twice in fact, one doing pizza slices and second doing the aoe phase but I did the very best of my abilities for that clear as a dps spot, we downed him and it made me happy when we did, nobody is going to take that achievement away from me or try to use that as a weapon to speak out against dps that are lazy like in void ark or crystal tower or so on.

it *would* be *a* crime *for* someone *to* want to *use* some *sort* of *dps* meter as a *weapon* against someone, wouldn't *it*?

I strongly *advise* you to *consider* going from *a* glass *house* to *plastic*

...how is "getting carried" not "being lazy while DPSing"?

I got carried cause my dps was supbar unlike the fully geared item 200+ group I was in but I did my very best to add to the group, I didn't just be half afk not caring on "If I get the clear, I get the clear so I'm going to push buttons" mentally.

Yes but the OP has REASONS for bad DPS (common things like being dead, bad gear etc) whereas no one else from the df could possibly have reasons nearly as important....

OPs reasons count - everyone else just has excuses...

Nobody cares, they see only the numbers I did in my clear group and is using that against me and lashing out for speaking out about other dps. They think I should not have a voice about it unless my dps is top notch of the very best sad to say, it enraged me.

The fact of the matter is, you made some very elitist statements pertaining to other DPS players in your original post. You claimed that you can just pick up a DPS class and maximize its potential, and further stated that it's easy to do so. I mean... seriously? I feel that I'm pretty decent as a monk, but I won't come running to the official forums basically claiming to be the Queen of Monks and that I can poop out maximum DPS on it. I think you're confusing "I know my rotation and am passably competent on the class," with "I know how to fully maximize DPS." Anyone that reads tooltips and takes the time to figure out how the skills fit together on the most basic level can be passably competent at a class. Maximizing DPS takes time, practice, and gear.

And like I said, I was wrong on that statement and made it elitist but I was upset doing that void ark dungeon with half the groups half afk and me doing my very best. It felt wrong and made the run 4 times longer (Including the wipes due to people not moving and while half afk) I may not be the queen of monks but I will do my damndest to try to give out my fullest attention and knowledge I can give, another reason I was upset and made the thread only for it to backfire and blowup in my face and people only to turn and bite at me instead of confirming there are people that do semi afk or not know their class and just play to sake to play.

You know what, I'm done. You guys want to twist my words, use dps logs against me and call me a troll, whatever, i'm done, to the people who agreed with me. thank you, we all see those type of people in like the void ark and crystal tower and so on, to the people that kept attacking me or tried to be passive aggressive towards me

I hate all.

After all trying to defend myself, it landed on deft ears to some which frustrated me, not only did it frustrated me that I'm not even giving my best in dungeons anymore nor even do thordin ex anymore, I feel if this is how the community see how dps should act, I guess if you can't beat them or talk about them, might as well join them. That passion fire inside me is gone now and I honestly believe that with how people using logs against me, unless I'm server top or near the top, I have no voice and should say nothing and do nothing.

Nothing wrong with tapping out man, especially when you've been schooled.

Another reason I'm not going to speak out about this or even talk about this anymore, people like that don't care what I say or the topic involved and another reason the fire burned out inside me to do my very best in this game anymore.

I won't bring this up anymore, I just... don't care anymore. I honestly believed people would understand this cause but, I was wrong and...not give my all anymore, this thread and comment towards me, confirmed that.

Good bye everyone. *sigh*

[CBellz]

those numbers don't show anything but numbers, they don't show skills used, cooldowns used and on on.

Thank you OP for entertaining me so much in this thread . Let me take a look at these logs and show you that they do in fact show all of these things.


On your highest (i mean that relatively) ninja parse you are roughly 15-20 auto attacks short of where you should be, without any deaths. You used only 15 aeolian edges when you have a WAR in the party that used SE 23 times, the number of AEs should be close to 30. In fact, the logs suggest that you weren't using all your GCDs and oGCDs optimally. I see only 300 total skills cast, when that number should be closer to 340+ with that clear time. You also uh.. used sprint at the end and lost Huton. Your DPS isn't optimal becuase you're not using all your skills effectively. Please don't use gear as an excuse.

In general, I don't like to see people complain about low DPS from other players when I feel that they aren't exactly at the highest level of competency either. i.e. Why do you feel you have the right to call out a player that is playing at 20% of the job's potential when you yourself can only play at 50%?

[Kaurie]

Let's not suggest people be bad and use tri-bind. That's like telling lazy bards that it's perfectly fine to use wide volley instead of qiuck nock. There's not reason to use a higher cost, lower potency move when there's another move (blizzard II) with higher potency, lower cost, exactly the same additional effects and larger AoE area. Being in melee range should never be an excuse not to use an attack.

If you paid attention to the conversation, I advised the person to use Blizzard II. However, if AoE's are an issue, Tri-Bind works well to be able to stay at a distance. I use it on the occasional pull for this reason.

But yes, Blizz II if 2+ mobs over Ruin, 3+ mobs over Ruin III, Tri-Bind if you need to be at a distance and 5+ mobs.

[Pinkie_Pie]

And sorry for be elitist and bringing this up.

[RiceisNice]

Good bye everyone. *sigh*

This is more or less what you said eariler and you still came back for more.

I threw things out of context when someone posted my logs without my consent and now everyone is using that against me, saying I shouldn't have a voice to speak out about this, and that I am a troll or this is bait, yes, I did die in my fight, twice in fact, one doing pizza slices and second doing the aoe phase but I did the very best of my abilities for that clear as a dps spot, we downed him and it made me happy when we did, nobody is going to take that achievement away from me or try to use that as a weapon to speak out against dps that are lazy like in void ark or crystal tower or so on.

It still does not address the fact that your performance is subpar, and that apparently you don't know how FFlogs actually works in regards to it actually giving context on what's being used and when. And honestly, yous ohuldn't be dying to pizza cutters or AoE if you're avoiding everything properly. You can't be undergeared to the point that you're dying to unavoidable AoEs even without heals, unless you're using acessories to inflate it (which again, is a completely seperate problem which honestly wouldn't help your case)

[Nixxa]

I'm sorry for the trouble you went through Pinkie, I didn't agree with some of the statements you made early on, but as this degraded into a "Bash the op" game the criticism against you turned into a joke. People who post logs on their FFXIVlogs do it on their best runs when they pulled out all the stops so they can show off their high numbers, the others in the group are along for the ride. I just got back for a 5 month break on the 12th and on the 15th cleared A1s on scholar while teaching a group, my dps is shown at 150, which is well below what I can do in that turn normally especially on sch, but what it doesn't show is that the other healer kept dying and by the last half of the fight I was solo healing pretty much everything for the clear so I had less time to dps. I wasn't even asked if my parses could be uploaded I only just found out about them when they were mentioned, but judging someone based on those is judging based on incomplete information, which is just as bad as what you claimed Pinkie did, it is replicating the very elitist nature you crucify Pinkie for having lol.

This topic should have been over long before it evolved into this level of toxicity and all the would be heroes of this thread are really no better than the one they criticized in this particular case, congratulations, viva la hypocrisy.

Again, Pinkie I didn't agree with how you worded your views early on and some of the posts rightly called you out on it, but you said sorry and clarified...by then it was to late and what happened after was an embarrassment to the FFXIV community, it does not reflect on all of us, sorry for drama it caused. :/

[Kosmos992k]

Kosmos' I find myself half agreeing with you all the time! In this case, yes, people need to be respectful of each other. However, part of that respect is putting in your appropriate effort when in a team situation. As I alluded to a few posts back, it would be disrespectful to your sports team if you were to dick around on a cell phone while they are all trying their hardest to win. The same goes here, if you are watching netflix and just auto-attacking while you do your roulettes, you're hurting your team.

I also both agree and don't agree. I don't like the sports team analogy, because there are many types and standards of team and competition ranging from casual play for fun, through amatuer competition and on towards more professional leagues. It's the difference between cooperative and competitive play. This is a video game,we are almost by definition playing to waste time. It's a coop game, not competitive. On the other hand, the harder content requires that people be a bit more on point, and while perhaps not competitive, it certainly requires a more competitive frame of mind,and a more focused team approach. So, I agree with you that when challenging more difficult content, people do need to be more team oriented, and take things more seriously - and actually try to do well. Outside of that environment though, I think that everyone just needs to relax and be more compassionate.

For example, if I were joining a team for some harder content, I would expect to bring my A game, and I'd expect to be held accountable if I zone out and cause problems for the team. If I'm running in DR for a levelling dungeon, I'll still do my best, that's just me, but I won't expect that of others, and if someone is clearly not doing well, but not actively trolling the group, I'll let it go, and relax. I might try giving a hint or two, or ask if they are needing any pointers, but there's no point in being critical or judgemental. There could be any number of reasons for their performance, not least of which is they had a crap day and just want to relax, something I can totally sympathize with.

I think compassion and respect go hand in hand, if applied they can cover both the extremes and all manner of other situations. One thing I dislike though us when someone acts like a jerk to someone and then hides behind the rationalization that they were being respectful to the team, and the other player was not. It's true to say you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs, but you have to crack the shell carefully or else you'll be picking it out of your teeth later....

[Zojha]

I also do not really understand why you are attempting to defend poor play.

Because if everyone was playing well, I couldn't get commendations that way anymore!

Coeurls's out the bag, masterplan revealed. Now I shall twirl my non-existent mustache.

On a more serious note: Explaining that would lead far offtopic. Let's just say a truckload of bad experiences with the performance paradigm. That aside, we're (most likely) talking about completely different things. I am still referring to the quote that people should always make the objectively better choice and maintain the position that this is not necessarily so and there should be room for tolerance. You are talking about people that are effectively AFK, which is a case that's obviously very far outside the realm of tolerance.

[Pinkie_Pie]

In general, I don't like to see people complain about low DPS from other players when I feel that they aren't exactly at the highest level of competency either. i.e. Why do you feel you have the right to call out a player that is playing at 20% of the job's potential when you yourself can only play at 50%?

*sigh* i give up, another uses those logs against me for speaking out. Unless i play perfectly they will only use those logs i have no voice and should not speak let alone, do.

[RiceisNice]

*sigh* i give up, another uses those logs against me for speaking out. Unless i play perfectly they will only use those logs i have no voice and should not speak let alone, do.

The problem is that you're speaking down on other players for not playing optimally, when you yourself aren't doing so. That's hypocrisy at best. And on the otehr hand, you yourself keep escalating it along with everyone else by defending yourself (and at points it's not even correct) that it's gotten to this point.

Hell, the poster that replied to you even critiqued on what was wrong that could be addressed, and you shoved it aside.