Job/Role specific Materia: Giving jobs more flavour!

[AzureFlare]

So, I assume you are a veteran game designer who has worked in balancing MMOs for years to make such sweeping statements?

Seriously, you're making this out to be way easier than it is by any realistic standard. Balancing something with so many co- and interdependent variables as an MMORPG must be a complete nightmare and the people who do it have my respect. Adding even more such variables is just making it more nightmarish without any real gain whatsoever.

The truth of the matter is that FFXIV's whole basic design is not suited to extensive customization without breaking - or fundamentally changing - the entire game, and I'm of the opinion that this is not a bad thing at all. Other games have done near-infinite customization a lot better than FFXIV (often because they were designed from the ground up with that in mind), and I see no reason to shoehorn it in just for the sake of having it.

Honestly, I'd agree with your points if it weren't for FFXIV customization being so bland and out-of-the-box-ready on top of them still managing to give some jobs way better boxes than others. At this point, they might as well say 'Who cares about balance? No job's left behind anyway!' and toss the customization lovers a bone if they aren't going to rethink their balance better, but I guess that coding-wise they'll find something against it again..

[Granyala]

As long as we have to overmeld and contend with shitty RNG in the process I do NOT want any materia on combat classes.
I have no interest in being forced to either grind my heart out or RMT in order to be able to play my character properly.

Thank you very much.

[ProfBlake]

As long as we have to overmeld and contend with shitty RNG in the process I do NOT want any materia on combat classes.
I have no interest in being forced to either grind my heart out or RMT in order to be able to play my character properly.

Thank you very much.

I have to agree with this to some extent, while i don't agree on the implementation of a 100% surefire way to get said materia, i also feel that the Relic Scrolls and Crafter Materia Melding was horrifying enough, hence my suggestion to implement a functional primal related materia system which should, hopefully, rely much less on RNG.

[Nathair]

I have to agree with this to some extent, while i don't agree on the implementation of a 100% surefire way to get said materia, i also feel that the Relic Scrolls and Crafter Materia Melding was horrifying enough, hence my suggestion to implement a functional primal related materia system which should, hopefully, rely much less on RNG.

Just Primal Materia won't do the trick, in a game where there are not many primals, and elemental damage basically doesn't exists, since there are no elemental weaknesses to use them against.
We might get a better deal when we'll be able to meld raid gear, since we'll be free to pick the stats to put on that (more or less). But as the materia system is as of now, that's the best thing we can probably get.

[Alberel]

Devs already explained this.

They are not adding this stuff in due to the nature of duty finder. It is a tool meant to be all inclusive. Stuff like this only promote the design scheme Yoshida does NOT want. He understand people want this, but you need to think of all aspects of the game. Ff11 had this and people who didn't have the special gear was kicked outa leveling groups or not welcomed in endgame groups.

I personally don't want to go back to that I don't want to be forced to spend Millions of gil or 30+ game hours it takes to get the gear/ material I need, just to even do something as basic as level up.

Trouble is without unique effects like these equipment is incredibly boring. Secondary stats are pretty much pointless as it is. iLvl is the only stat that matters in the grand scheme of things and it leaves players with essentially zero room to customise their playstyle.

Other MMOs besides FFXI have unique class-specific equipment effects and yet they do not have the same issues that FFXI had so it clearly IS possible to implement with balance.

The primary reason it was such an issue in FFXI was because of gear-swapping macros. Being able to swap equipment in combat to optimise stats for each unique skill led to people being expected to have every single combination of equipment. Here in FFXIV you would be forced to only pick one and they wouldn't need to have such a dramatic effect anyway.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Trouble is without unique effects like these equipment is incredibly boring. Secondary stats are pretty much pointless as it is. iLvl is the only stat that matters in the grand scheme of things and it leaves players with essentially zero room to customise their playstyle.

Other MMOs besides FFXI have unique class-specific equipment effects and yet they do not have the same issues that FFXI had so it clearly IS possible to implement with balance.

The primary reason it was such an issue in FFXI was because of gear-swapping macros. Being able to swap equipment in combat to optimise stats for each unique skill led to people being expected to have every single combination of equipment. Here in FFXIV you would be forced to only pick one and they wouldn't need to have such a dramatic effect anyway.

Well, having stupid stats like +Ice Resistance/Reduces Ice Damage by 10% which was mostly removed didn't help either. It would actually be cool things in FFXIV.

[Nicobo]

SE may implement this by removing something you should have originally and ask you obtain them back by adding the corresponding materias.
Just like take away crossclass abilities and then we have a materia for provoke, a material for Stoneskill etc ^^;
Or take away +STR20 from your gear and you have to get it back by adding the materia +STR20, maybe if you are rich enough, you can buy the materia +STR22.
So if there is a +STR30, why not everyone will go for it? Eventually only more players will be unhappy.

Moreover, to be what Job/Role specific, players might be restricted to enhance only limited Job/Role like the current desynth/crafting specialist system.
This is what job specific in the crafting system.

[Shurrikhan]

As much as I'd like reasons by which we might actually get to very the priorities or dynamics of our rotations as we acquire and slot more gear, I feel like this method, unless incredibly potent and necessary, is only going to waddle towards and quickly fall short of almost any goal you can assign to it, and soon enough the custom stats are just going to feel like that random little bonus you find on a Borderlands weapon, which you still throw out mere days later, at best.

Consider: would it actually provide more job identity to have specific job mechanics embonused? I can improve my Jump, but my Jump is still my Jump, used at its Jump rate, with approximately its Jump damage, approximately its Jump (base) critical strike bonus. Until I'm actually getting something that allows me to hover in the air to avoid damage and fall for more, or to reset my Jump CD, or change its CD method (allowing it to be rushed or overcharged), or to spend BotD for additional Jump damage, has it really done anything to the internal balance/dynamics of the job (e.g. the proportion of especially DRG-like elements to merely Lancer-esque elements)? Has it furthered your niche any (which would merely the same as any other 200 to 360 oGCD), affecting the external balance/dynamics?

I'm all for giving us some interesting effects, but unless they are also resultantly significant, they aren't going to be interesting for very long. In a way, we could even say the same of the secondary stats we already have. If their strength was increased by a third, and the effect of primary stats cut back accordingly, not only would be have wider horizontal gear choice, but we'd also be able to pursue more experimental rotations. If they were more balanced across all jobs, we'd also have more freedom of choice therein. (Food for thought--what if Skill Speed and Spell Speed were one stat, benefiting PLDs, DRKs, and Bards? What if Speed increased TP regen tick frequency (ticking at 50 per base GCD, with Paeon, etc. ticking for 20% less per receiving player's GCD)? What if Speed had at least some effect on AAs and oGCDs? What if Speed scaled a percentage of remaining GCD, rather than at a mostly flat rate (xGCD/Speed), such that it wasn't relatively inferior at low numbers and especially strong at high numbers? Alternatively, imagine if a job had a mechanic where damage dealt over a certain buff's duration gradually raised your AP accordingly, causing exponential use of stats during that window. Or, imagine if a job had a mechanic in which a rotational proc triggered only on critical strikes, such that increased critical strike chance could condense the expected build window for that move. Those are all small adjustments or additions that could actually have large rotational effects, albeit within the limits, as always, of the job's windows of opportunity. While basic--still using only three offensive stats--they would create a lot more gear-based character progression, and likely even identity, than "+15% Jump damage", etc.

To try to shorten this up into a simple distinction, what I think you'd want to look for in 'unique' stats would be something less like "stats" and more like "traits", introducing new mechanics. But the fact is if you go that route, they'll actually mean something, which then means they'll be obligatory. They may yet be balanced fairly, thereby maximizing our options and avoiding the "X materia or gtfo" paradigm, but not only will everyone at least taking the time after each item received to slot it, but there's going to be some rebalancing required if their effects start exceeding, say, 3-5% net dps increase. If this means going out and grinding through a cluster---- like Diadem to get as much gear as possible to go through another ----storm to bond and convert for a chance of decent materia, I can't honestly say I'm too happy about that. If it drops from doing things that I already like doing, and especially if it can be transfered into new items (even if requiring time or effort in exchange, just preferably not [only] expensive crafter items), then I would love it, absolutely.

tldr; even the secondary stats we have already don't have to be boring; there's merely too little effective output to distinguish them. The same will be true of anything else you add without giving it enough power to actually affect gameplay significantly.

[silentwindfr]

I don't even get why they're in the game? I've seen some crafters use it, but it can't be that much of a improvement on crafting... I wish they never got rid of elemental resistance/weaknesses. They could've given Blm two different stances focussing on two different elements each....

it's a relic of the V1 like most of the materia actually, if you look at it, outside Hardcore that do optimization or crafter, materia are mostly unused by player, because the secondary stats have not that much impact on the game actually.

the problem lie in the fact they try to follow the player mindset that was corrupt by player trying to act like the hardcore and do min/max.
when is not always recquired, since most of the min/max setting is for A3S and A4S...

leading to some ridicule expectation from a part of the community that act like an ass because they are behind a monitor and thing they will have nothing to fear. quite childish if you want my thought.

but do it's a good reason for avoid to add more customization to the character?
people say yeah, the player will need to pay or need to do that or this.
but this materia reserved to a job, can be added throught jobs quest that will recquire player to solve some challenge in solo or small group, allowing the player to train to master them jobs. what FF14 clearly need more content usable as training ground.

[Malakym]

I'm all for this. People get kicked out for everything from experience to ilvl to playstyle already anyway. Are we actually gonna start kicking for a dragoon not having +5% jump damage? Seriously the community isn't gonna change anyway. Time to start putting some variety into the game.

Agreed, I'm tired of not getting nice things because either they don't want RMT having it (haven't seen them around much? hur hur) or people would be asshats about it. Cause people wouldn't simply continue being asshats without it I guess.

Also seriously, elemental materia needs to go away.