Add a unique stat to the new Relics, so they are worth obtaining. Enough is enough.

[Velhart]

Job traits and skill boost is a good start. Is there any abilities you like on MCH but don't use because it's worthless in what you normally do?

Okay but if we go by this formula, then I will eventually have to take it off for something with better stats, meaning I would have to revert to the way I played before.

Now if you want to put a runic system in place where you can add your own traits to gear, that is a step in the right direction, but it has to be done right that would not break the system. At the same time however, that is hard for developers to balance out per gear patch or they could just rebalance the job itself to work like that.

I feel like that is saying we shouldn't have cars, because some people will speed and have accidents.

Vehicles are a necessity, small trait boosts on gear isn't.

[Kaurie]

Vehicles are a necessity, small trait boosts on gear isn't.

We could easily get by with public transportation.

The reason why that isn't an argument for cars is not because they are a necessity, it's because it's a rare occurrence. The frequency x value is greater than the frequency x risk. As is the same with making a form of entertainment that we pay for more entertaining the value x frequency is greater than the risk x frequency.

[Velhart]

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You have too much faith in a community that will take the easy route out if the opportunity is given to them. If FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 are any indication, a horizontal system with added traits just makes an unbalanced mess the developers are not willing to handle to put extra time into make it work. Not to mention, these traits have to be made and balanced out that it does not break the job....each patch. That is including when job adjustments have to be made. Its a mess to work with, and in doing so, takes longer for our patches to come out.

You have to ask yourself why the current systems in place, why a certain idea may not work. You have to look at the perspective on both a player and developer standpoint. From a developer standpoint, it looks like a pain in the ass to constantly work with said features.

[Stanelis]

If FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 are any indication, a horizontal system with added traits just makes an unbalanced mess the developers are not willing to handle to put extra time into make it work

FFXIV V1.0 was a failed game, but FFXI's system was actually working quite well. Let me remind you that FFXI was once the second or third MMORPG on the market in term of concurrent number of subscribers. Also, even with largely homogeneized classes in the current FFXIV, classes are still unbalanced (cf the tank situation or the machinist /bard issues).

That is including when job adjustments have to be made. Its a mess to work with, and in doing so, takes longer for our patches to come out.

You mean that SE developpers would actually have to do their job and partake in actual game design, rather than just work on the technical aspects of their games ? Yeah FFXI battle system was indeed like 50 times more complex than FFXIV's 2.0 and it is indeed very hard to come up with a decent battle system; but that doesn't mean we should be happy with what is currently in FFXIV.

[Velhart]

FFXIV V1.0 was a failed game, but FFXI's system was actually working quite well. Let me remind you that FFXI was once the second or third MMORPG on the market in term of concurrent number of subscribers.

Did you play FFXI? Ask the Puppetmasters how much end game time they got sticking to their job. Jobs were excluded from end game content and still is today in that game. Very balanced. Certain traits on gear made it BiS for years and made 95% of choices on other gear not an option.

You mean that SE developpers would actually have to do their job and partake in actual game design, rather than just working on the technical aspects of their games ?

You have to remember that when they have to go through a longer process in terms of gear adjusting/balancing, and constantly having to rework traits and job balancing to meet the criteria of being balanced, they delay the patch further, ultimately having us suffer in the process.

People only know what they want and don't even bother to think of the repercussions of adding the system in. It isn't simply copy/paste traits in and everything just magically works itself from there. That is not the reality of the situation. Every small, tiny, insignificant thing they add in or take out can cause a major balance issue to the game. I am not 100% defending the developers, but no one takes perspective into account when they throw ideas like this in.

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Like I said before, yes the developers do need to shake up the system some, because it is boring. I ask people who throw suggestions in to look at both sides of the argument when doing so. Developers should always be stepping up their game, but at the same time, putting a strain only affects us at the end of the day.

If anything, people should ask SE to throw money at the FFXIV team to get more people in to make new and great ideas on how to keep the system fresh. There are ideas out there to make things work in everyone's favor.

[Kaurie]

no one takes perspective into account when they throw ideas like this in.

Of course we do. We all understand that this will require development time, and that it may not be ready tomorrow if they ask. We understand that it may delay other things, or take away development of other things.

People such as myself, want this so much that we'd be happy to not get additions to things like Gold Saucer and so on, while they use those resources to develop this.

I'd be fine if tomorrow I woke up and Yoshi said "We have heard the feedback regarding adding interesting stats to items. We think this is something that can definitely benefit the game, but it needs to be done right. If we rush it, then there may be balance issues. We expect that we will be able to have this in the release of 3.4" - at least then I'll see it acknowledged and have an idea of when to expect it.

[Stanelis]

Did you play FFXI? Ask the Puppetmasters how much end game time they got sticking to their job. Jobs were excluded from end game content and still is today in that game. Very balanced. Certain traits on gear made it BiS for years and made 95% of choices on other gear not an option.

Yes I do, I played it several years and reactivated my account less than a month ago.

You have to understand that with a game with so many choices there will always be a flavor of the month class or whatever at any given time (once, in FFXI, it has been rangers, BLM, NIN, BST, etc). In the current FFXIV there isn't any flavor.

Also, for the record, I know some very happy PUP in FFXI. It is simply not an endgame group job because more powerful options are available, more suited for group play (like SMN and BST, and I know something about that as I mained SMN). PuP was made with soloing in mind. No, there were indeed underpowered classes (like a lot of the original melee classes, which didn't bring anything once the more advanced jobs were implemented) but that was kinda ok. You just had to accept that not every class was suited to do every piece of content (which is kinda ok).

You have to remember that when they have to go through a longer process in terms of gear adjusting/balancing, and constantly having to rework traits and job balancing to meet the criteria of being balanced, they delay the patch further, ultimately having us suffer in the process.

Yeah right, like they delayed 3.15 to add more cont... oh wait.

[Velhart]

Funny thing is they have acknowledged the system and expressed interest in bringing it in. They said once they can find a way to make it work, they would. If it was as simple as that I think it would of been brought in a long time ago, as early as 2.0 even. Likely if they do, it won't be much like people are expecting. That is usually how SE rolls with things.

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I think the quest team and item team are not exactly the same group. I think item team's handle in it was waiting to see how fast people were obtaining ilvl210 gear and balancing off that. How did the relic quest turn out? Poorly. Its not to say they didn't work hard on it (sorry really stretching that statement out), but I think the FFXIV team overall lacks the man power to bring interesting content and unique ways to give us something we already have.

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Did Patch 3.15 get delayed?

[RiceisNice]

You have to remember that when they have to go through a longer process in terms of gear adjusting/balancing, and constantly having to rework traits and job balancing to meet the criteria of being balanced, they delay the patch further, ultimately having us suffer in the process.

And not to play devil's advocate, but can we honestly say that with the content we've been getting lately, they are actually putting a lot of time in developing it? Relic was delayed from being a 3.0 release to whooping 3.15, and the mess known as steps 2 and 3 is what we got to show for it. "Hard work" really should not be an excuse to not work on content at this point imo. It's gotten to the point that they aren't meeting the standards that they themselves have set during 2.x cycles.

During 2.x, I was more than willing to let it pass for them implementing things like daily quests, PvP and such (which honestly, should be a given in modern day mmos) later in 2.x's life cycle, but 3.x falls flat in being too complacent with sticking to the same content design (or worse, the same content), except it's less of it (MSQ primals, expert dungeons, etc) in favor of content that they already seem to be pushing out with very little feedback or play testing (diadem and Lov).

[Alberel]

You have too much faith in a community that will take the easy route out if the opportunity is given to them. If FFXI/FFXIV 1.0 are any indication, a horizontal system with added traits just makes an unbalanced mess the developers are not willing to handle to put extra time into make it work. Not to mention, these traits have to be made and balanced out that it does not break the job....each patch. That is including when job adjustments have to be made. Its a mess to work with, and in doing so, takes longer for our patches to come out.

You have to ask yourself why the current systems in place, why a certain idea may not work. You have to look at the perspective on both a player and developer standpoint. From a developer standpoint, it looks like a pain in the ass to constantly work with said features.

The current system is in place because the devs don't want to put the work into balancing a complex and interesting stat system. It's that simple.

You are basically advocating removing anything that some people might use to exclude other players. Newsflash: players are ALREADY excluded from raids and such. Should we remove raids completely because some players exclude certain jobs? Oh that's a point, why did we ever add AST when raid groups still prefer taking WHM and SCH? Guess AST better be deleted pronto.

Do you realise how silly your logic sounds?

When you have a choice between a system that is easy to balance but incredibly boring, or a system that is harder to balance but much more fun, which would you prefer? Bear in mind the entire point of these games is ultimately fun... there doesn't seem much point in the risk-free boring option does there?