Strength Tanks

[Syzygian]

Souleater comes close, but to get 5k HP worth of heals out of it requires at least two DASEs, which costs way more MP than Clemency does, and 6 GCDs.

You regenerate half of the cost simply by rotating through the combo b/c of Syphon Strike. A single DA Souleater has a net loss of less than 1000 MP.

2 DA Souleaters = 884 - 1768 + 884 - 1768 = 1768 MP cost. Clemency is 2121 iirc.

PLD loses the ability to block/parry/do damage for 3 seconds and heals for 1200 potency for 2121 MP.
DRK continues to parry and deals 1600 potency over 6 GCDs not counting oGCD, heals for 800 potency for 1768 MP, and cannot be interrupted.

I'd call that a wash.

[fm_fenrir]

I'd call that a wash.

I agree, mostly, but the point was that Clemency is a lot stronger than people give it credit for.

[Ashkendor]

You can talk all you want about tank DPS numbers, optimum ways to perform in certain fights, etc. At the end of the day, it is your responsibility as a tank to recognize what your group can and cannot do. If your healer cannot handle you being out of tank stance. DON"T DROP IT! On the other hand, if your party can handle it, I encourage you to push your play (and your party's) to the edge of your skill. You only get better by striving to be better.

Yeah, definitely. Even though we don't need the extra DPS, I've been working at pushing the amount of time I spend in Sword Oath for A1S and A2S basically to practice. I know that I'm basically behind the curve, but it is what it is. When I'm with my static group, I don't end up with the healer trust issues that I end up with in pugs. Even then, it can be kind of hair-pulling to push my limits because our WHM can be a little... stodgy? She's a great healer and I love her to death but she doesn't like change much and sometimes gets really stressed about it. Last night, we ended up wiping in A1S because I died due to heals being a bit slow and she asked me, "...were you tanking in Sword Oath? I wish you'd said something and I would've paid closer attention to your HP." I was a bit confused, because I've been tanking it almost entirely in Sword Oath for about three weeks now. xD

[Bashum]

From where I stand, it seems like some people want to take less damage and just focus on holding hate. Others want to be able to do more damage as a tank to shorten encounters.


Where is the middle ground?

Except that there's this misconception that having STR accessories causes you to take "more damage" which is not the case at all. It simply gives less time before your healer needs to pop out of cleric stance and begin healing you.

As long as your health bar is decreasing at a rate that's reasonable enough for healers to stance dance and dps with relative ease, there's zero reason to have any extra VIT at the expense of STR.

[Syzygian]

Except that there's this misconception that having STR accessories causes you to take "more damage" which is not the case at all. It simply gives less time before your healer needs to pop out of cleric stance and begin healing you.

As long as your health bar is decreasing at a rate that's reasonable enough for healers to stance dance and dps with relative ease, there's zero reason to have any extra VIT at the expense of STR.

I'd say that this misconception barely exists anymore, people have been so militant about stamping it out. Instead people are swinging to the other extreme, which is that having VIT accessories means you don't know how to do your job, which, to parrot back your words, is not the case at all, it simply means the tank wants to be able to soak up as much damage as possible before anyone in the party needs to worry.

I say this is a tank that primarily uses STR gear and uses melds to meet HP checks. I do this purely because its what my static prefers and I adapt to meet their needs.

You could also argue that unless there is an enrage that the extra 300 or so DPS that you're doing from switching to STR will help you meet, or that your weaker self-heals are causing you to die (unlikely), or that you cannot keep aggro without STR gear (lol), there's zero reason to stack STR either.

[Bashum]

I've been running full melded forever, just because I'd rather not deal with either of the extremists :P

[Ashkendor]

I'd say that this misconception barely exists anymore, people have been so militant about stamping it out. Instead people are swinging to the other extreme, which is that having VIT accessories means you don't know how to do your job, which, to parrot back your words, is not the case at all, it simply means the tank wants to be able to soak up as much damage as possible before anyone in the party needs to worry.

Right, when I see a tank in Fending, I don't think: omg what a scrub. If I'm tanking with them, I consider their gear and whether or not I'm going to have to watch my hate as OT or if I should just MT. If I'm healing them, I shrug because it gives me a few more GCD's to DPS. As a DPS, I shrug and try to manage my hate. I think both playstyles are viable (aside from Savage, which I think we can all agree is a different sort of beast), it's all just a matter of what you're comfortable with.

I've been running full melded forever, just because I'd rather not deal with either of the extremists :P

I also prefer melded when you need to be a bit tankier than full slaying but don't want the loss of enmity/dps that goes with full fending. From a healing standpoint though, as long as the tank in question is using their cooldowns properly it's not any harder to heal a strength tank than it is a vitality tank. It just means I have time for a couple of Broils in there before I have to drop CS and Lustrate. It doesn't bother me either way. I just did a decently fast run of St. Mocianne's (~20 mins) on Scholar with a Warrior in full Slaying that did some pretty big pulls, and I still found time to DPS because they had excellent cooldown management and they actually let me mitigate them before each big pack (seriously, SS and Adlo before the pull help so much).

.... I tend to tank Thordan EX with Vit accessories and 1 strength accessory. Does that make me bad? Should i switch and go full strength? I'm DRK btw

Honestly, I'd say if you're clearing it (or making progress in it) then you're fine. ^^

[WolfKid]

.... I tend to tank Thordan EX with Vit accessories and 1 strength accessory. Does that make me bad? Should i switch and go full strength? I'm DRK btw

[Immut]

.... I tend to tank Thordan EX with Vit accessories and 1 strength accessory. Does that make me bad? Should i switch and go full strength? I'm DRK btw

It doesn't make you "bad". Equipment can never make someone bad. But it makes you suboptimal.

Honestly though it doesn't really matter as long as you can perform. The DPS checks aren't nearly as strict in there and the extra HP will give you more freedom with your cooldowns.

It's not like savage where you need to squeeze out every last dps or roulette where everything is so faceroll there's no justification for not getting it done as fast as possible.

[Twilite]

K. When are you all going to shut the hell up about this?