Quick question to all dps people in regards to dps in general

[whiskeybravo]

That's exactly what I would tell them. At almost full 210 eso with 205 weapon the gearcheck foe savage is gone. However, the skillcheck still remains, which alone is enough to keep many groups from clearing.

Well, we are just going to have to agree to disagree I guess lol. I can't consider someone who doesn't have drops from content (or beyond) being overgeared for said content. You don't just go from minimum gearing to over gearing.

An interesting thought (IMO at least) is that scob savage was released after regular scob, since we didn't get any higher level gear than 110, anybody that completed scob (which you had to in order to attempt savage) was automatically "overgeared" for savage according to your logic, even though many people didn't clear it until the next set of gear came out. Hell, iirc we didn't even get server first clears on leviathan until those groups were done farming fcob.

Edit: Indeed, savage scob was released in July 2014, fcob in October 2014, Leviathan t9 savage server first clear was feb 2015, a full 7 months after it came out. Lucrezia got it Aug 2014, no surprise there I guess, everyone else had to be 20 levels overgeared lol

[bounddreamer]

Wrong, in Defiance and full fending I can still push higher numbers than some dps because I know my job and how to play it effectively. Which is more than can be said of a fair share of DF players.

[whiskeybravo]

Wrong

What is?

It would be more appropriate to compare yourself to an equally skilled dps, in which case you wouldn't be all that close in defiance and full fending.

[MrCookTM]

Well, we are just going to have to agree to disagree I guess lol. I can't consider someone who doesn't have drops from content (or beyond) being overgeared for said content. You don't just go from minimum gearing to over gearing.

An interesting thought (IMO at least) is that scob savage was released after regular scob, since we didn't get any higher level gear than 110, anybody that completed scob (which you had to in order to attempt savage) was automatically "overgeared" for savage according to your logic, even though many people didn't clear it until the next set of gear came out. Hell, iirc we didn't even get server first clears on leviathan until those groups were done farming fcob.

Edit: Indeed, savage scob was released in July 2014, fcob in October 2014, Leviathan t9 savage server first clear was feb 2015, a full 7 months after it came out. Lucrezia got it Aug 2014, no surprise there I guess, everyone else had to be 20 levels overgeared lol

What? Why would anyone that completed ScoB automatically be overgeared for ScoB savage by my logic? I didn't say anything even close to that in any of my previous posts. ^^ What I said is that at a certain ilvl the gear check is pretty much gone, and that point is certainly reached when people speed run/solo heal/7-man stuff, when tanks can wear full slaying and tank in dps stance 100% of the fight and still meet hp thresholds for tank busters, when 3 dps can meet the dps check (see 7-man carries/sales). At what ilvl that point is reached completely depends on the content and what ilvl it's tuned for. ScoB was tuned for i90, and it was beaten in i90. World 1st t9 from blue garter had an average group ilvl of exactly i100, but was beaten in full i90 by lucrezia later on. ScoB savage however was tuned for i110, even if it dropped gear of that same ilvl, which pretty much means that yes, in i130 people were overgeared for it.

Besides that, the reason why not many groups beat ScoB savage before they had full i130 gear was mainly because they had no interest in it, the abundance of better gear rewards was one major reason for this. After FcoB, which wasn't that hard at all frankly, a lot of raid groups had nothing to do until 3.0 so they attempted savage. That's what my group did, too. I also know of alot of groups that cleared ScoB savage in i130 pretty quickly and then went back to do it in i110 for the original challenge.

[whiskeybravo]

Well there is that little caveat, if we had to wait 8 months between scob savage and fcob certainly more people would've been attempting it at least. So if groups spent more time optimizing scob savage, at some point I'm sure at least 1 group of the best players would've been able to carry/sell a savage run, would you consider it at that point to be overgeared content? Even tho the gear itself didn't change? That's kinda what I meant by your logic.

I'm not really trying to argue with you about any of this, I just find it interesting that something can be called overgeared farm content when only like 3% of the game's population has actually cleared it lol

[MrCookTM]

Well there is that little caveat, if we had to wait 8 months between scob savage and fcob certainly more people would've been attempting it at least. So if groups spent more time optimizing scob savage, at some point I'm sure at least 1 group of the best players would've been able to carry/sell a savage run, would you consider it at that point to be overgeared content? Even tho the gear itself didn't change? That's kinda what I meant by your logic.

I'm not really trying to argue with you about any of this, I just find it interesting that something can be called overgeared farm content when only like 3% of the game's population has actually cleared it lol

Yeah I get ya. First of all, I'm talking purely from the perspective of a raider, so I assume the playerbase we're talking about has a decent understanding of they're jobs and how to handle raid mechanics at the very least. From this perspective I would even go as far and as saying that A1s and A2s are close to being faceroll content, because they are very easy mechanically and the things that made them hard initially - dps, tank, heal checks, aka gear checks - are pretty much nonexistent at this point. Every decent player that knows what he does can clear them easily.

A3 and A4 are still a different thing, though. I still think the the gear check for these is gone with Thordan weapons available and gobtwines for everyone, but they are in fact very, very challenging turns when it comes to mechanics and group coordination, and they're unforgiving, which means a major mistake can easily cause a wipe, which makes them still require high execution, even with current gear. So in my opinion, for the groups that are clearing savage for quite a while now, yes, it's overgeared farm content. For everyone else it's at least overgeared, still not neccessarily farm content if they didn't clear A3/4s yet, though.

Regarding ScoB savage, maybe there would have been groups being able to sell certain turns in i110, at least t6 savage. For the other turns I'm not sure though. Not saying it's entirely impossible, but it would be a major challenge to do it. People normally sell content which they are a 100% confident in clearing it with 7 people in a short amount of time, which I don't think would work with ScoB in i110, though.

[lulunami]

I just checked the Elysium A3s week 3 kill. The hp numbers both tanks have are not reachable in full slaying with the gear available at that point, not even close.

Did you account for food, party buff, and tank drops from Alex 2?

[MrCookTM]

Did you account for food, party buff, and tank drops from Alex 2?

Yes, I did.

[alimdia]

They most likely had lots of melding pieces.

[Krindor]

Well there is that little caveat, if we had to wait 8 months between scob savage and fcob certainly more people would've been attempting it at least. So if groups spent more time optimizing scob savage, at some point I'm sure at least 1 group of the best players would've been able to carry/sell a savage run, would you consider it at that point to be overgeared content? Even tho the gear itself didn't change? That's kinda what I meant by your logic.

I'm not really trying to argue with you about any of this, I just find it interesting that something can be called overgeared farm content when only like 3% of the game's population has actually cleared it lol

Problem was that until fcob was released Savage was on the same lockout as normal. A lot of groups preferred to get their gear from all coils instead of trying to kill savage. And no one would probably wanna pay the huge amount of gil they would charge for selling savage just to get a title so it wasn't really worth anything for the sellers.