Quick question to all dps people in regards to dps in general

[Valkyrie-Amber]

tanks role is to control all agro mitigate damage dodge aoes and maximize dps.
healer roles dot all mobs heal all and do as much dps as possible they two have to dodge aoes.

all a dps does is dps maximum efficiency and dodge aoes so doing 1.5x a warriors damage doesn't feel enough cause we do far less in general in the dps role.

[D_C]

Well I dunno mates, even if ya only do 10% more, then if tha checks're tight enough n' people good enough, they're always gonna choose that 10%. Tha whole reason tanks n' healers go balls deep with it already is squeezin' out erry last drop.

Personally, an' s'just me, ah'd love if tha personal damage from alla tha non-DPS shifted ta debuffs an' buffs that improved tha group instead, but ah always liked support shite.

[Judge_Xero]

This has always kinda got to me, not you but this statement in general. Content drops 210 gear. Nobody is higher than 210. We aren't going back and running with 220 or 230 gear, how is it "overgearing" exactly?

It is because the content is tuned lower than the gear it drops. On my phone at the moment but if you look at old Coil in the Duty Finder it will say the minimum ilvl to do it, which is much lower than the gear that drops.

[whiskeybravo]

It is because the content is tuned lower than the gear it drops. On my phone at the moment but if you look at old Coil in the Duty Finder it will say the minimum ilvl to do it, which is much lower than the gear that drops.

Well, aside from savage not being in the df and having a min ilvl :P you don't just go from minimum to over. The missing step is intended, and I think the majority of players are at the intended ilvl, since only a small % of people have actually had a4s on farm for any length of time. Does my i206 drg outgear savage even tho I've never cleared a3s? Perhaps 1+2, but over 3? I don't think so, but my item level would be over whatever minimum would be set, right? (I guess it could be like, 208 or something, then I'd be under min lol) I consider it at intended level.

[Warlyx]

atm Warriors is nearly everything :P

the trinity is balanced around Damage (Cds included), Mitigation (Cds/Armor) , and Healing .
SCH and WHM as examples

WHM 90% healing , 10 mit (stoneskin)
SCH 70% healing , 30% mit (galvanize effects)

PLD is all about mit 70%, 10% some healing , 10 % dmg
Drk is 65% mit , 25% dmg , 10% healing


there are others thing to take into account in FFXIV , melee usually do more , AOE / Single

and i guess SE doesnt take into account the "armor" nor HP of DPS , usually balanced around DEF and MAGIC DEF (casters have more magic)

dunno how SE balance FFXIV , but war atm has lots of MIT , good DPS and even some healing ....

[MrCookTM]

Tanks were running STR accessories during progression too, I wasn't referring to farm content NOW in particular, just how Wars have been accessorizing themselves this expansion.

Maybe one or two str accessories, but still depending on the turn. At @i185+ some tank busters were not survivable in full slaying, partly due to hp and partly due to way lower def stats one the gear. Also why are you talking about war in particular? Hp tresholds are the same for all three tanks, and the only reason to wear a vit or melded accsessory is to meet that treshold. Tank dps in dps stance isn't too far apart too, war is just slightly ahead, though fell cleave/dps is not even the reason why war is so good and a staple for every group, that seems to be a pretty common misconception...


@whiskeybravo

Savage is overgeared because at i205+ and with thordan weapons the gear check is gone. Tanks can wear full slaying and stay in dps stance without dying, dps don't need to bring they're best to meet the check. You can have multiple deaths in A3s and still clear it with 30+ seconds ahead of enrage. Of course many groups still struggle to beat A3/4, but this is because they're mechanically challenging fights that still require a lot of communication and raid awareness and they still punish mistakes pretty hard/require a high degree of execution. In my opinion, content is overgeared the moment when solid groups start to sell/7-man it. This has been the case in savage for quite a while now.

[whiskeybravo]

You should also keep in mind that there are 2 factors to War's that contribute to their high Dps output that most people do not consider.

Neither of the points are relative for a tank in tank gear, though. I can do perfect combos, have perfect timing for fell cleaves and 100% uptime, but if I'm not wearing str gear then I just look like a crappy war. Conversely, I can wear full str, put out half the effort and have amazing looking numbers by comparison. Now, without getting into what's the right or wrong way to play, it should be easy enough to see this has very little to do with the job itself and everything to do with what gear your're wearing. If you want to compare pld, drk, war dps with each other, either in vit or str, then that's fine, I just think the dynamic changes when you compare dps geared tank to dps geared dps, it's more or less just dps vs dps at that point, not tank vs dps.

In my opinion, content is overgeared the moment when solid groups start to sell/7-man it. This has been the case in savage for quite a while now.

I would only say that those particular people are overgeared for their skill level, as well as anyone that has had a4s on farm for a while and thus has all the gear available. Would you tell a player with i205 + thordan weapon who has never stepped foot in alex savage that they overgear it? Surely they have the gear to be able to clear it given enough practice, but would you really tell them they overgear it?

[MrCookTM]

OT WARs were wearing full slaying right-side for A3S and A4S during progression since the DPS checks were very high. I believe only the MT DRKs were wearing a few pieces of melded crafted 150 accessories with slaying right side.

I just checked the Elysium A3s week 3 kill. The hp numbers both tanks have are not reachable in full slaying with the gear available at that point, not even close.

I would only say that those particular people are overgeared for their skill level, as well as anyone that has had a4s on farm for a while and thus has all the gear available. Would you tell a player with i205 + thordan weapon who has never stepped foot in alex savage that they overgear it? Surely they have the gear to be able to clear it given enough practice, but would you really tell them they overgear it?

That's exactly what I would tell them. At almost full 210 eso with 205 weapon the gearcheck for savage is gone. However, the skillcheck still remains, which alone is enough to keep many groups from clearing.

[whiskeybravo]

That's exactly what I would tell them. At almost full 210 eso with 205 weapon the gearcheck foe savage is gone. However, the skillcheck still remains, which alone is enough to keep many groups from clearing.

Well, we are just going to have to agree to disagree I guess lol. I can't consider someone who doesn't have drops from content (or beyond) being overgeared for said content. You don't just go from minimum gearing to over gearing.

An interesting thought (IMO at least) is that scob savage was released after regular scob, since we didn't get any higher level gear than 110, anybody that completed scob (which you had to in order to attempt savage) was automatically "overgeared" for savage according to your logic, even though many people didn't clear it until the next set of gear came out. Hell, iirc we didn't even get server first clears on leviathan until those groups were done farming fcob.

Edit: Indeed, savage scob was released in July 2014, fcob in October 2014, Leviathan t9 savage server first clear was feb 2015, a full 7 months after it came out. Lucrezia got it Aug 2014, no surprise there I guess, everyone else had to be 20 levels overgeared lol