Can future relic weapons have special abilities?

[loreleidiangelo]

This "mandatory" nonsense really needs to stop.
Relics Nexus and Zetas were, at their time, THE absolute BiS weapon for every job. If people were really denied content because they weren't "optimal", anyone without a perfect Relic would have been excluded from hard content already.

Well, substats were a reasonably minor difference compared to something like item level(weapon damage), which is why no one cared what substats your i135 weapon had, so long as it was, y'know, an i135 one.

Adding additional or unique effects would probably amount to much more of a difference in DPS/HPS/mitigation unless the effects are something so minor as to be negligible anyway...in which case that would kind of defeat the purpose of what people are asking for in this thread.

[Reynhart]

Well, substats were a reasonably minor difference compared to something like item level(weapon damage), which is why no one cared what substats your i135 weapon had, so long as it was, y'know, an i135 one.

Were you kicked out of Final Coil because you only had an i110 or 120 weapon ?

Were tanks kicked out because they chose to spend their bonus stats on STR when people thought VIT was better, or the opposite ?

[Tilgung]

Were you kicked out of Final Coil because you only had an i110 or 120 weapon ?

Were tanks kicked out because they chose to spend their bonus stats on STR when people thought VIT was better, or the opposite ?

Yes, actually. After a certain point, having a 110 was inexcusable. There was another group to take them sure, but that doesn't mean a kick didn't happen at some point.

And the suggested -5 seconds off a recast timer makes a really big difference compared to an extra 16 Critical Hit.

[Reynhart]

Yes, actually. After a certain point, having a 110 was inexcusable.

That point being :

• Having already beaten T11
• Having the weekly Crystal Quest available, around 3 months after the release of Final Coil

And still, at that point, you'd only end with, at best, and i130 weapon, clearly weaker than the best weapon you could have.
So no, people were not as massively kicked for not being "optimal" as Yoshi-P makes it sound.

Besides, even if it isn't the same game, this community take its roots in FFXI, where optimization is much more important...yet there was no massive kick either.

[Tilgung]

That point being :

• Having already beaten T11
• Having the weekly Crystal Quest available, around 3 months after the release of Final Coil

And still, at that point, you'd only end with, at best, and i130 weapon, clearly weaker than the best weapon you could have.
So no, people were not as massively kicked for not being "optimal" as Yoshi-P makes it sound.

The difference between a 130 and a 135 weapon is quite a bit weaker than the current enhancement example people have been giving out. And you're thinking of the past raid tier which wasn't nearly as strict on skill and gear levels. Particularly the last half where i205+ groups can struggle to meet DPS checks. I can guarantee any DPS trying to go into A3S with a Hive weapon instead of an Eso is going to be booted immediately. And I wouldn't be surprised if PUG attempts aren't going to be requiring Thordan Weapons soon. If they don't already.

Besides, even if it isn't the same game, this community take its roots in FFXI, where optimization is much more important...yet there was no massive kick either.

Did we play the same game? Let's not even mention gear, people were refused because of their job choice. The elitist nature of XI was extreme. And it's even worse now because REM weapons are vastly easier (they still take months of dedicated effort) to obtain that in more than a few cases, they're considered required equipment for that job to be functional.

[Reynhart]

Did we play the same game? Let's not even mention gear, people were refused because of their job choice.

Yes, I think we did.
But I didn't talk about jobs, but gear. And people weren't rejected because they refused to use windower to switch 12 pieces of gear in each macro.

[WellFooled]

Yes, actually. After a certain point, having a 110 was inexcusable.

At a certain point yes, but this is true of any gear, in any game, if there is forward progression, regardless of how the stats for the game are designed. Eventually things get replaced and its no longer feasible to keep using them for late game content. It's true now and it will keep being true if special abilities/stats were added to gear.

[Kaurie]

Well, substats were a reasonably minor difference compared to something like item level(weapon damage), which is why no one cared what substats your i135 weapon had, so long as it was, y'know, an i135 one.

Adding additional or unique effects would probably amount to much more of a difference in DPS/HPS/mitigation unless the effects are something so minor as to be negligible anyway...in which case that would kind of defeat the purpose of what people are asking for in this thread.

And despite that, no one blocked you from content if you had a 120 weapon instead of a 135 weapon. At least, I know I never had anyone block me from entering their party for that reason.

Additional effects would naturally have to be balanced. I see this really as no different than having more than 1 job. You could say one is the 'best' and lock out all others, or you can see what they each bring to the table and let people play what they want. I find most people say 'play what you find the most fun', and I'd assume would go for fun stats too.

[loreleidiangelo]

And despite that, no one blocked you from content if you had a 120 weapon instead of a 135 weapon. At least, I know I never had anyone block me from entering their party for that reason.

Additional effects would naturally have to be balanced. I see this really as no different than having more than 1 job. You could say one is the 'best' and lock out all others, or you can see what they each bring to the table and let people play what they want. I find most people say 'play what you find the most fun', and I'd assume would go for fun stats too.

If you saw my post on page 1, you'll actually see that I'm in support of this idea. I was simply pointing out that the argument of, "people weren't excluded for having crappy substats on their relic" is flawed because additional effects would provide a more significant boost than substats, and that if they didn't, they might as well not be added anyway.

I can't really predict if people would be exclusionary over this or not. I'm in favor of it simply because we're hurting for gameplay and gear customization in this game badly.

[Kaurie]

If you saw my post on page 1, you'll actually see that I'm in support of this idea.

Ah cool, yes I didn't see (or remember) that.

I was simply pointing out that the argument of, "people weren't excluded for having crappy substats on their relic" is flawed because additional effects would provide a more significant boost than substats, and that if they didn't, they might as well not be added anyway.

Sort of true, I thought he meant people weren't excluded for not having a relic, not not having appropriate sub-stats. I also disagree that the substats need to be so substantial that they keep you out of a party, but so insignificant that they are not approrpiate. I feel there is a balance. I also feel that as people didn't discriminate based on 15 ilvl weapon difference, they may not discriminate based on your preferred choice.

I can't really predict if people would be exclusionary over this or not. I'm in favor of it simply because we're hurting for gameplay and gear customization in this game badly.

Couldn't agree more.

I feel that the evidence currently sits away from the exclusionary argument, as being excluded from things is currently pretty rare. Whether you're not the optimal job, or don't have the highest gear level or BiS choices, you're still welcome in most PF's. Yes there are some people who are jerks out there, but they are few and far between, and I don't think the entire game should be designed around them.