A3S nerfs incoming

[RiceisNice]

...

Normal mode can essentially be considered as filler content since it's shelf life isn't that long beyond the gated gearing process. If they had say, FCoB-tier normal mode and savage mode, the former would still last a bit longer, for both the process of gearing and content for players to tackle, while at the same time, savage still present a challenge without making people burnout if they're attempting it over the course of 4 months (when a month or two is spent on the previous tier).

To ride on what you're asying, savage mode being the only raid tier, and even if people do clear it, all that's let is the gearing process behind it then it becomes exhausted. Content needs to have shelf life, but at the same time it shouldn't be overly inacessible for the general population to tide them over until the next content patch.

[Nihility]

And in doing so, they potentially damage the endgame content further. If even say 30-40% of players could clear A3 Savage, then there is nothing left to challenge them until the next patch. Considering that Alexander Savage was released on July 23rd, and the only comparable content would be Thordan EX. This would equate to over six months of nothing to work towards in terms of "hardcore" content. MMOs require some sort of wall to impose upon players to inevitably challenge them or we're just trading one set of complainers for another.

I think you don't really understand just how few people even do raids.
If 30-40% of the population was even attempting alexander savage it would be something for S-E to be bragging about for having the best attendance of any MMO raid ever

as it stands now i would have a ton more fun just having a farm night for alexander than player A quits because it's no fun then player B quits because A was his friend then going through 3-6 sets of recruits before finding 2 new ones that can handle dps check while doing mechanics and by then player C quits because he's just tired of being stagnant training new recruits then more testing and training to find a competent new guy then player D decides progression isn't going fast enough and server transfers to be one of the recruits of another group going through the same thing and it just goes round and round

[SchalaZeal]

Imagine some of the only worthwhile rewards you could get from Gathering/crafting were only realistically obtainable by a very small percentage of crafters/gatherers; people would rightfully complain. But if there's some worthwhile rewards that aren't as difficult to obtain, most players would probably be okay with that.

The i170 IS only realistically obtainable by a very small percentage of crafters/gatherers. Out of say, a population of 4000 players on a server, less than 10% will have lv 60 all-crafts. And less than that will have the budget to even consider full-170 gearing.

But the 180 gearing is at least decent, and getting 10 million to craft and meld the 5 accessories + belt (the tier below 170, but max-melded) is not that bad. Then add 2 million per offhand depending on how many crafts they have. This is *after* they tripled the availability of favor mats. Offhands would be 6+ million otherwise. An amount way above most crafters' cash potential.

For the record, if you were to craft every single piece of crafter gear i170, that's 13 per craft, times 8 crafts = 104 pieces. Edit: That's wrong, I counted the accessories and belt 8 times there. Real number would be 62. Right now some pieces that used to cost 5-15 million are at a more reasonable and affordable 1-2 million. Melding each piece to maximum stats (prioritizing CP when possible) while not using V tier materia (cause they're not really available enough anyways) would cost about 3 million per piece, provided CP IV is 150k, Control IV is 300k and Craft IV is about 60k. So average piece price 1.5 million * 62 = 93. Then 62 *3 million = 186. 93+186 = 279 million gil.

279 million gil, just to be ready for what may be in 3.2 or later, ideally you'd be set until 4.0 given the extreme cost. Just not doing the main hands is likely to cut 44 million off that (20 million to craft, 24 to meld), but will take longer (since i180 is time-gated, and main hands take longest). Going all-180 would go up til 2017 if you went all crafts all-gear. And you'd still be short accessories, belt and offhands. Far from accessible for omnicrafters. Okay for specialists who don't have huge funds.

In 2.0-2.5 you needed a tiny fraction of that kind of money to be best-geared. I think I might have spent 6 million to gear and max-meld all crafts in the i55 gear of 2.0.

Edited cause I miscounted.

[Mature]

I wouldn't touch or nerf anything Savage related. It's good to have a challenging battle from time to time

Keep as it is

[Mercutial]

Nerfing Thordan would be obscene. I'd say clear rates are somewhat on par with where Ravana was around the same time. As for A3/4S, SE is in a tricky position. If they plan on gating the new raids, something has to be done I suppose. Otherwise, a lot of development time and costs would be spent on something maybe 1% of the pop would have access to. Don't get me wrong... I HATE the idea of any nerf (and even Echo), but I can see why SE might be wringing their hands here.

All that being said... the "shelf life" argument goes a looooong way in my book. SE should just commit to it's difficulty and allow gear progression to act as a "nerf". Keep the raids relevant for way into the future. People will eventually get to the second tier. Hell... T9 kinda acted this way for the longest time.

[RiceisNice]

All that being said... the "shelf life" argument goes a looooong way in my book. SE should just commit to it's difficulty and allow gear progression to act as a "nerf". Keep the raids relevant for way into the future. People will eventually get to the second tier. Hell... T9 kinda acted this way for the longest time.

Its both shelf life and accessibility. What's the point of having diamonds last forever if no one can ever afford it?

[Mercutial]

Its both shelf life and accessibility. What's the point of having diamonds last forever if no one can ever afford it?

Again... people thought the same thing about T9. Now everyone and their mother has cleared it. May take ages, but eventually everything goes down. Gear progression will see to that.

[Zojha]

Again... people thought the same thing about T9. Now everyone and their mother has cleared it.

Neither me nor my mother has cleared it yet.

Just...wanted to point that out.

[whiskeybravo]

They really nerfing Thordan? Come on

After reading the blurb, this isn't an official statement but more like his opinion..

Yoshi-P has stated as well that Arm of the Father Savage (A3s) has had disappointingly few clears, perhaps meaning we can expect a nerf of some sort. Personally, I think all of Alexander savage and The Minstrel’s Ballad: Thordan’s Reign (Thordan EX) will see some kind of nerf, because Yoshi-P has stated before he wants the game to be more accessible to casual players.

"Perhaps"... "Personally, I think"...

All opinion no fact. Sigh of relief maybe lol

[RiceisNice]

Again... people thought the same thing about T9. Now everyone and their mother has cleared it. May take ages, but eventually everything goes down. Gear progression will see to that.

The circumstances of T9 is different than Alexander savage though, at least that's what I think the developers wanted. At the time of T9 you also have BCoB, and that'd only see 2 patch cycles before that got tuned down (with 3 months for each cycle).

Savage on the other hand, is supposed to be hard, but at the same time, it's become the only raid content at hand to tide over for two patch cycles (one of the cycle being 5 months). You don't see a mass exodus of players with SCoB or FCoB, but that's happening with Alexander Savage. Something behind it is different and it's whats causing statics to fall apart, mass player xfers to the super servers, and leaving smaller servers to die.