So you've given SMN a role, but...

[Delily]

this would be valid if the current SMN rotation consist primarily of using pet commands, it does not.

they could've build SMNs like Ninjas, give them 3 runes and different orders put them into different avatar stances and different stances would mean the available spells change. instead of Bio, Miasma, you would have Ifrit stance and a Burn DOT, a Ramuh stance and a lightning DOT, instead of Miasma II you would go into Garuda-trance and call Tornado that would put up an AOE wind DOT.

that would be vastly different from BLM because you need to change stances to cast the right spells, and you would still have to manage Astral Flow stacks for strong abilities like Inferno, Tidal Wave, Deathflare, etc.

BLM strong abilities are done via long cast time and/or huge MP consumption.

SMN without a pet would still be limited by some kind of Aetherflow like charge mechanic where it's more about managing that resource.

There's no elemental wheel in this game, what good would a Lighting DoT provide over a Fire DoT?

Your idea, however, isn't fundamentally different than how BLM currently works. They stance dance to have periods of heavy damage and periods of recovery. The SMN, as a DoT class, is more about consistent damage with an opportunity for some burst damage.

[SendohJin]

There's no elemental wheel in this game, what good would a Lighting DoT provide over a Fire DoT?

nothing, it's the same difference as Bio and Miasma, it's two DoTs that you can apply concurrently. it's just more inline with being a Summoner than Bio and Miasma, which has zero to do with summoning but somehow those lines of spells provide over 50% of their damage.

Your idea, however, isn't fundamentally different than how BLM currently works.

it's just as different as the current SMN.

The SMN, as a DoT class, is more about consistent damage with an opportunity for some burst damage.

SMN can be a DoT class without a pet. what i said doesn't make them not a DoT class, it just makes them more of a Summoner and less of an Arcanist.

[Shurrikhan]

Would this class be insanely complicated? Yeah.
Would it practically require addon usage to optimize? Probably.
Would it be insanely OP? Of course.

Would it be the most fun **** to play ever? HELL YAH!

I really wish this was the aim with which most jobs started.
Sign of a great class -> feeling slightly overwhelmed even as a veteran and feeling totally OP when technically not.

Most of my thoughts on potential Summoner revisions have revolved around much the same. Tried to make it so resources (e.g. AF) can be spent on:
- Caster direct damage/effects (e.g. Fester, Bane, Deathflare, Energy Drain)
- Pet direct damage/effects (two more abilities per pet that consume resource)
- Caster buffs - via pet (gain a gameplay-changing buff based on your current pet and adjusting certain attacks into a particular elemental aspect which will have differing synergy with other aspects added from other pets - stacks up to twice)
- Pet buff (accelerating cooldowns, attack speed, and regeneration, and improving certain linked effects, fading over time and use - each comes with a size increase - stacks up to 3 times)

And where several actions can make unique use of consuming your pet. Generally a lot more pet swapping, even without consuming. More use of 'rifts' and quick-casting.

Hiding all this because I'm way too tired right now to finish anything coherently but also keeping what little I have because want to remind myself of this line of thought later...

[Exodus-E]

snip

yeah but... what about King Moggle Mog invocation? :<

This is one of the most frequent issues I see whenever some people propose ways to "fix" SMN:

What about any other summon that gets implemented further down the line (or was implemented in-between)?

It's already bad enough that most don't consider the potential consequences for changing a class/job (since these ALWAYS affect others in one way or another); limiting the number of "summons" a SMN can have from the get-go would add even more problems.

Like making people complain about "why X wasn't included/made available for SMN"?

[Tsilyi]

I really just want to replace garuda with king moggle mog because it would be cute. I do like the current toolkit, though sometimes i do think summoner is not exactly how i would have expected the class to be from the outset. That said, I'm not sure they ARE going to implement more summons. They seem to have started to move away from pets as a whole as they did not give summoner pets any more abilities and shifted everything instead to trance. I'm honestly really curious as to what they will possibly do with summoner next expansion. DWT is a big deal and it will be difficult to expand on that particular repertoire.

e: fyi my post you quoted was strictly in response to another person's class ideas, you know that, right? I liked their fun and interesting ideas for another different take on summoner, so i wanted to see what kind of abilities they would design for a moggle-mog trance/invocation

[Exodus-E]

e: fyi my post you quoted was strictly in response to another person's class ideas, you know that, right? I liked their fun and interesting ideas for another different take on summoner, so i wanted to see what kind of abilities they would design for a moggle-mog trance/invocation

Yeah I know.

I replied to the previous quote with your quote as "proof" that most other people ignore any other summon that came in between and will come after.

I too would be interested in a Good King Moggle Mog XII summon, even if it's a "glamour".

[Kaurie]

Personally, I'd like it if the pet was our weapon. Every skill we use is channeled through the pet. It dies, and all you have is book smacking until you summon again.

[Xaeth]

Hi, I'm going to ask you to move all discussions in this thread to this thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ad-3.0-Edition

We're having three threads on the same subject at the same time which is kind of a mess...

[Rongway]

but i've been of the opinion that Summoning in FF MMOs would work better as trances/stances and not as pets for a long time now. Ifrit Mode cast Inferno, Titan Mode cast Landslide, etc.

They can't do that; all the BUM--I mean Blue Mage, of course--fanatics would be upset at burning a Form/Mode ability set mechanic on SMN.

[Hagen]

I think Bio and Miasma doesn't look like Summoner spells is because they aren't. They are Arcanist spells. I think if they changed it to Burn, Rasp, or Choke would already be much better, like we are channeling the primals energy. Just a name and animation change, leave SCH with the poisons. Adding to the fact of how stupid the egis looks, we do have a lot of unsastified smns. I think it was a waste the pets didnt have new skills on HW, they could have made a lot of stuff that combo with the summoner just like Contagion does. Maybe a mini fester burst for Ifrit or ground target Tornado AoE for Garuda.