To all the people complaining about DPSing in an off role

[Ultima]

I love how rather than actually read the OP and start actual discussion or anything remotely relevant to the topic at hand, several people have opted to instead play semantics and proclaim the MAJORITY of an MMORPG is Solo content. Let me tell you, kiddos. The majority of FFXIV is group content. Trials/Dungeons/Guildhests/FATEs/Raids/PVP, all that. You know the stuff you actually do in this game? If you're going to keep playing semantics with the paper thin solo content in this game, be my guest. It just shows you're not reading the OP.

You keep talking like the OP is speaking of forcing people to DPS as a Tank or Healer, he's not. He's talking about Tanks and Healers who are great at their job are able to DPS in their downtime or indeed DPS full-time without hurting their team as a sign of Mastery of the job.

[Tint]

Did you ever stop to consider that maybe YOU are the one doing it wrong?

[...]

TL;DR: Tanks and Healers who DPS are core to FF14, and are here to stay. There are many of us that like it this way, please stop complaining about it now?

yes, i did consider it. and i hate it. so i will complain. there are many of us that like to play a healing type of healer and a tanking type of tank, so please stop complaining about it now o.o/

[Shug]

I love how rather than actually read the OP and start actual discussion or anything remotely relevant to the topic at hand, several people have opted to instead play semantics and proclaim the MAJORITY of an MMORPG is Solo content. Let me tell you, kiddos. The majority of FFXIV is group content. Trials/Dungeons/Guildhests/FATEs/Raids/PVP, all that. You know the stuff you actually do in this game? If you're going to keep playing semantics with the paper thin solo content in this game, be my guest. It just shows you're not reading the OP.

You keep talking like the OP is speaking of forcing people to DPS as a Tank or Healer, he's not. He's talking about Tanks and Healers who are great at their job are able to DPS in their downtime or indeed DPS full-time without hurting their team as a sign of Mastery of the job.

Dude, did you read any of the thread? He wants people to stop complaining because they don't want to play the way he wants them to.

[Ultima]

Dude, did you read any of the thread? He wants people to stop complaining because they don't want to play the way he wants them to.

He politely said "please" and tried to say why maybe the people complaining about DPSing are wrong. You don't have to agree with him, but you have to at least understand what he's saying and then offer an actual counterpoint instead of spouting off "Solo Content" and the raid mentality. Square Enix caused this situation, yelling in the wind because someone likes the DPS meta isn't going to fix a thing. We can behave like adults and have a civil discussion.

Alternatively, if people don't like how the game plays, they can quit?

[Shug]

Yoshida: For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible.

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.


End of discussion.

[Ultima]

Okay? You know Yoshida is not actually perfect, he's been wrong in the past and he can say he set the development to not include Healer dps. That doesn't mean we should just leave free damage on the table, we all want to clear the content faster and more efficiently. If you don't like it, form your own parties and don't run with people who want to play the game more effectively. We shouldn't be encouraging people to ignore half of their skills just because their role is "Healer", okay? That's not okay, that's lazy. If you want to enforce this meta of not mastering your job, please kindly ask Yoshida to remove Cleric Stance and DPS Stances from being effective in 4-man content or otherwise, then you'll have your wish.

And then watch the game die when Savage becomes so braindead simple without an overhaul of both player and AI mechanics. People keep asking for the removal of DPS checks and don't realize what that would do to the game.


But if you're just quoting Yoshida to justify not playing your job at it's optimal level, then that's okay too, that's just like your opinion, but don't act like we're evil people for playing the game at a more masterful level than you would like. We got the message now, we won't DF anymore, we'll just play with our FC/LS/Friends and never run with the community, because we're asking too much of them, sorry for asking people to improve at a video game, so sorry.

[Tint]

this game actually has a class trinity. i choosed to play this game especially because i wanted to heal. if i wanted to DPS i would play a DPS role. but they messed up the trinity by making the tanks and healer waaaay to powerfull. that's why we "have" to dps now, because we have nothing else to do. i don't like this v.v/

[Jynx]

but don't act like we're evil people for playing the game at a more masterful level than you would like.

Is it just me or does this come off as way too snobby for a video game?

The real discussion isn't about not wanting to DPS it's about how the game is designed soley around DPS, alot of people would rather a healers most efficient course of action be to heal, assist mitigation, crowd control all that sort of "Controly" stuff that comes with being a traditional healer. Not just slap a few cure spells and be another DPS. Likewise with Tanks alot of people want to be able to focus on tanking and mitigation, threat control and that be playing the job to it's pinacle even when pushing as much DPS as they can.

People want the roles to highlight the spirit of the roll not just a meatier DPS and Healy DPS.

[Kuwagami]

The earliest example I can cite is Metroid, which gave you special endings based off of how fast you could complete the game.

The game has less than 2 hours of playtime. Of course they had something to increase its lifetime, else it would not have been the success it was. Every Metroid game is a race. You don't go in a metroid game expecting challenging platform gameplay or strategy vs bosses.

This, however, has nothing to do with a MMO, or FFxiv in particular.

The game is designed around the Trinity, and advertized as such. DPS, Healer and Tank. (well, originally it was support and healers were part of the supports, but meh, no supports in FFxiv)

And look at it now. Tanks are dps with extra HP, and close to no tanking options. Where are the crowd control possibilities ? The Iron Wall feeling of a tank ? What am I, as a warrior, if not a glorified dps ? Cause I sure don't feel like a tank. Just a blue-colored dps.
Healers are also dps, with a few heals to throw here and there (but HoTs and the fairy do all the work anyway in most cases). where is the party support via buffs (or enemy debuffs). Only AST has some party buffs.


The problem is that FFxiv is a trinity MMO, yet not a trinity MMO. The game is hesitating between a trinity-wannabe (easier to understand the builds as they are strictly enforced. Tanks are not here to do damage but to take hits. Healers are here to heal and that's it. DPS are here to wreck shit) and a korean-wannabe (everyone wrecks everything and sometimes does something out of dps-ing).

It's time to decide what you want to be, game.

[Paxsean001]

In T5, surviving tank busters require the aid of multiple party members. White Mages stoneskin'd, scholars barrier-healed + virus + preemptive E4E, or if it was on CD, a caster would use it, also tanks needed to place their attack debuffs on the boss as well, then the tank that eats it receives a shitload of healing. This is the meta we all miss. When this was relevant content, tanks were more worried about getting destroyed by Death Sentence than their epic deeps. And healers had plenty of things to do. Also, mechanics.

This right here, I'm a Tank and truthfully find Alexander terribly boring. Compared to Death Sentence and all of everything in T9 it's fights are lack luster on the mitigation end. It feels as though you're left with nothing better to do than DPS.