To all the people complaining about DPSing in an off role

[Ultima]

I love how rather than actually read the OP and start actual discussion or anything remotely relevant to the topic at hand, several people have opted to instead play semantics and proclaim the MAJORITY of an MMORPG is Solo content. Let me tell you, kiddos. The majority of FFXIV is group content. Trials/Dungeons/Guildhests/FATEs/Raids/PVP, all that. You know the stuff you actually do in this game? If you're going to keep playing semantics with the paper thin solo content in this game, be my guest. It just shows you're not reading the OP.

You keep talking like the OP is speaking of forcing people to DPS as a Tank or Healer, he's not. He's talking about Tanks and Healers who are great at their job are able to DPS in their downtime or indeed DPS full-time without hurting their team as a sign of Mastery of the job.

[Shug]

I love how rather than actually read the OP and start actual discussion or anything remotely relevant to the topic at hand, several people have opted to instead play semantics and proclaim the MAJORITY of an MMORPG is Solo content. Let me tell you, kiddos. The majority of FFXIV is group content. Trials/Dungeons/Guildhests/FATEs/Raids/PVP, all that. You know the stuff you actually do in this game? If you're going to keep playing semantics with the paper thin solo content in this game, be my guest. It just shows you're not reading the OP.

You keep talking like the OP is speaking of forcing people to DPS as a Tank or Healer, he's not. He's talking about Tanks and Healers who are great at their job are able to DPS in their downtime or indeed DPS full-time without hurting their team as a sign of Mastery of the job.

Dude, did you read any of the thread? He wants people to stop complaining because they don't want to play the way he wants them to.

[Ultima]

Dude, did you read any of the thread? He wants people to stop complaining because they don't want to play the way he wants them to.

He politely said "please" and tried to say why maybe the people complaining about DPSing are wrong. You don't have to agree with him, but you have to at least understand what he's saying and then offer an actual counterpoint instead of spouting off "Solo Content" and the raid mentality. Square Enix caused this situation, yelling in the wind because someone likes the DPS meta isn't going to fix a thing. We can behave like adults and have a civil discussion.

Alternatively, if people don't like how the game plays, they can quit?

[Lemuria]

He politely said "please" and tried to say why maybe the people complaining about DPSing are wrong.

Adding please to your argument, doesn't automatically make it a valid one.

Alternatively, if people don't like how the game plays, they can quit?

Firstly, that's kind of cute coming from someone who, in this very thread, said they were planning to quit soon. Secondly, this is not how the game plays. The game flat out allows healers to just heal, DPS to just DPS and tanks to just tank. The few pieces of content which make this difficult are at the absolute top-tier, and have even then been made largely redundant thanks to the introduction of Diadem.

So I say, let people play however they want without throwing down the hammer of judgement. If someone plays poorly, people will avoid them. If they can at least do their job, I doubt anyone will notice, or care. If they're exceptional, they'll be recognized. Doesn't matter if you're a DPS, a tank or a healer as long as the team works.

[Ultima]

Doot Doot

What can I say? I'd like to quit because this game only comes in two flavors. "Expert Roulette" which is actually about DPS auto attacking everything while the tank does all the work and the healer is watching netflix and Current Hardcore Raid which is being created for less than 1% of the playerbase. Yoshida isn't going to improve the game for people who want midcore content and it's been the same damn easy content and obsoleting it with something stupid like Diadem every patch. Like I said, I'm quitting soon, I only stuck around because a few friends still wanted to play, but we're finally ready to move on because we can tell that Yoshida doesn't want to improve the game, he just wants to ride it easy.

So, go on. Tell me how 3.2 is going to save the game and the game will just keep getting better, people have been saying that a lot in the last 5+ months and I'm not seeing it, they just decided to make Instanced Hunts - I mean Diadem as the star of 3.1, the content they hyped up since pre-3.0 and it's toxic and boring and riddled with issues that Yoshida could've noticed if he actually paid attention to his OWN GAME AND COMMUNITY.

[Reinha]

snippity

Thordan ex is said to be midcore. And I would guess that mass pulling in Diadem Hard would offer some kind of challenge as well. Have you tried those flavours?

[Ultima]

Doot

I'm from Balmung, the most populated server in the entire game and no PF I've ever been in has been able to do Thordan EX or any easier EX primal without enlisting the aid of Hardcore players, even Odin's trial has been deemed too hard for players of PF. I'm asking for something harder than EXR which is mindless and simple because it's made for people who aren't playing their main job (for some reason), but not something as hard as Savage or Extreme that is only for the Hardcores, we use to have this in our Hard Mode Primals.

Diadem Hard Mode is also only for the minority that has a big FC with a house and workshop, and pulling big packs is not a challenge.

The challenge I am asking for, is for the Midcore players, those who want to form up with randoms of decent skill and clear content, not hardcore Static content.

We need midcore dungeons, don't say those don't work because Pharos. Pharos did not work because it was put in the same roulette as easy dungeons, we need a new roulette for harder dungeons or just don't put them in DF, let them be only in PF.

[Reinha]

We need midcore dungeons, don't say those don't work because Pharos. Pharos did not work because it was put in the same roulette as easy dungeons, we need a new roulette for harder dungeons or just don't put them in DF, let them be only in PF.

Harder dungeons would indeed be lovely, especially because midcore players tend to be less organized than raiders and thus may not have an 8 man static to run things with. The daily eso roulette could be the level 60 one, and the 2 new ones in a patch could be harder and offer unique gear or vanity. They would be nerfed by gear progress by the time they get demoted to the level 60 roulette.

The game flat out allows healers to just heal, DPS to just DPS and tanks to just tank. The few pieces of content which make this difficult are at the absolute top-tier, and have even then been made largely redundant thanks to the introduction of Diadem.

On the other hand, any content but the top-tier stuff allows healers and tanks to dps very easily and very often once they are used to the encounters. In savage (and perhaps extremes) the extra dps is somewhat required, but elsewhere it's trivial to do. I think the question shouldn't be "Can I get away with not adding dps?", but rather "How can I help my party even more?". It's comparable to dps players not using their defensive skills, raise, Virus, mp/tp buffs or E4E with the excuses that those skills are not needed in non-top-tier content or that they are not directly related to their main role. Everyone has their own play style, but I think the ones that are more efficient and make the team stronger should be encouraged.

In the end the efficiency of a play style comes down to how the game is designed. Trinity in this game is not very strict, as evidenced by the fact that every role is able to put out enough damage and survive long enough when soloing. Having stricter class roles, perhaps with the addition of the fourth role of support, would make the leveling experience very different but would also force classes to focus on their own strengths to make the party stronger. Dps players and healers would be squishy, tanks couldn't self heal or do much dps, and healers would only be able to heal. This is not the case in FFXIV, in fact it's quite the opposite. DRG and SMN can tank situationally, healer dps is insanely good and tanks can push both healing and dps. Cross class abilities are a thing and mandatory for end game. These facts make me believe that hybrid play is is intended by design.

[SulwynCaliope]

snip

The problem is that healers are now being expected to DPS more than they are comfortable doing. Virus, E4E and raise are one time actions that don't really force DPS out of their roles very much. Especially since raise can be swift casted. A quick button press and they go back to their main role. Healers, on the other hand, are being expected to DPS for extended periods of time.

[missybee]

The game flat out allows healers to just heal, DPS to just DPS and tanks to just tank.

The game allows a whole slew of things. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are the best course of action.

That said, I honestly don't understand why this is such a thing. When I out-parse people on my healer or tank, I say "gross" and move on.

Sure, there isn't really a "right" or a "wrong" way to play...but if you value your own time and the time of the other people in your group, wouldn't you want to try and do your best?

Iunno. Y'all forum people are too damn nice to each other.