To all the people complaining about DPSing in an off role

[Kassiekane]

And here we go.

Did you ever stop to consider that maybe YOU are the one doing it wrong?

No, not really. If I am a tank, I expect to have my ass handed to me if I do not mitigate as much damage as possible throughout the course of the fight, not staying in a dps stance until 1 tank buster.

Let's talk a little bit about mastery, and what it means to be good at a video game.

Let's not. Instead, we should talk about the combat system and design direction.

As you already know, FFXIV uses a traditional tab-targeting system. There is also no emergent gameplay, therefore every encounter is exactly the same, every time. So, in order to make the game interesting, they make harder fights heavily mechanic-based. The same thing goes for jobs. The aspects that make each job unique and fun are their mechanics, such as DRK's MP management system.

So with this said, being good at FFXIV means mastering the mechanics. And by mechanics I mean the plural; more than one. How boring is it that we only focus on one mechanic, that being DPS?

The huge fuss I've been seeing on a lot of general forum discussions lately has to do with how FF14 rewards mastery.

This type of thinking is flawed, in my opinion. After all, if a masterful tank is able to mitigate extreme amounts of damage and prevent all the harm, then where exactly is there room for a masterful healer?

Not exactly sure what you're trying say here, but I think its something along the lines that if the jobs actually did what they were meant to do than it would be boring, am I right? If so...

In T5, surviving tank busters require the aid of multiple party members. White Mages stoneskin'd, scholars barrier-healed + virus + preemptive E4E, or if it was on CD, a caster would use it, also tanks needed to place their attack debuffs on the boss as well, then the tank that eats it receives a shitload of healing. This is the meta we all miss. When this was relevant content, tanks were more worried about getting destroyed by Death Sentence than their epic deeps. And healers had plenty of things to do. Also, mechanics.

Instead of that approach, in FF14, Yoshida and company made the decision that instead of excessive and superior mitigation and healing

Yeah, pretty sure he regrets that now, considering he's stated that the issue with paladin not being accepted into raids is because of the design of the content rather than the job itself, as well has the future abolishing of strength builds.

Now, based on the fact that he has intentions to make content where Paladin is relevant, I'm sure that means we'll be going back to more mechanic-heavy fights. Hell, Thordan Ex, a much more mechanic heavy fight, is living proof of this happening.

To confirm this, we need look no further than the skills for each Tank/Healer job going into Heavensward

Is this hyperbole? I think it's hyperbole. Or just a lack of understanding.

Whatever it is, you're assuming that the "complainers" do not ever want to DPS outside of their role, ever.

This all goes back to the fact that this game intends to be interesting by having a wide variety of challenging mechanics. There is nothing wrong with healers and tanks contributing to the party's overall dps, but it should not every be their primary role. That's what DPS jobs are for.

It certainly helps that not a single piece of content outside of Savage hits hard enough to require more than a Vengeance here, an Inner Beast/Equilibrium there, and a Raw Intuition just to be safe.

This is actually a sad thing.

Tanks and Healers putting out damage is the way that the game is meant to be played at the highest level, it always has been...

While its true that DPSing is part of playing at the highest level, it's never been necessary up to this point. Pretty sure back in the old days your party would not wipe on Titan if the white mage didn't pop a few aero/aero2's here and there.

At the end of the day though, this is all opinion, and its astounding that you find the logic of playing your role to be flawed when the reasoning of dps to be your primary job as something other than a dps is just as equally flawed.

However, as I pointed out earlier in this post, the design direction is already easing up on the dps aspect.

[Lemuria]

And if they can't DPS while also healing in this game, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they're just awful? White Mage can AFK after applying Regen, Asylum, Medica 2 if needed and just DPS for like half a minute before being assed to switch back to healing unless it's the hardest content in the game that nobody plays.

I'm sorry, but this is just flat-out ignorance. There are enemies which can deal 40% of a tanks HP in a single cleave, there are AoE's which can blast everyone in range with 3-4k of damage. If you have never experienced either of these, then you simply aren't qualified to continue your argument.

You can't always just 'afk' as a healer, even with Asylum and Regen, because there are plenty of attacks which will catch you off-guard if you're not careful. As a white mage myself, I've learned when to expect them and how low I can safely let a tank go before I need to swap stance and heal. I've also gotten used to quickly swapping in and out in an unexpected emergency. I would NOT expect everyone I play with to be able to do this, and nor should anyone else.

It's attitudes like this which drive people away from the job, and away from the game. If no one's dying and you're clearing the content, why do you even care how they play?

[AriaEnia]

I'm sorry, but this is just flat-out ignorance.

You can't always just 'afk' as a healer

It's attitudes like this which drive people away from the job, and away from the game. If no one's dying and you're clearing the content, why do you even care how they play?

Because entitled people will always feel entitled to say that you are wasting their time. If you don't clear pharos sirius hard in 10 minutes, entitled people will feel entitled to say that you're wasting their time, because you as a healer, don't do dps, even it is cleared smoothly. Pretty much the attitude I see around here.

[Jetstream_Fox]

And here we go.


In T5, surviving tank busters require the aid of multiple party members. White Mages stoneskin'd, scholars barrier-healed + virus + preemptive E4E, or if it was on CD, a caster would use it, also tanks needed to place their attack debuffs on the boss as well, then the tank that eats it receives a shitload of healing. This is the meta we all miss.

No. No it's not. T5 was built horribly, it did utilize a lot more of your class then most other raid content. But it was so badly designed with one hit kill mechanics.

[SargentToughie]

All of the things!

Hooray! The forums decided that enough time had passed that I'm allowed to post again. I'm not sure how many of these I got so I'll try and get as much done in this single post as I can.

You say that 'complainers' want to DPS, but those are exactly the type of people I'm targeting. I'm not justifying the atrocious state of this game's raiding, as you believe I am. All I'm saying is that if you want to play this game, and your role, as well as you possibly can it involves dealing DPS and stance dancing. There have been dozens upon dozens of people in several threads that I've been reading over the last few weeks that claim that they don't want to DPS, and they just want to do their role. Yeah, I understand that, but all I was trying to get across was that FF14 will likely never be a game that accommodates that fantasy of theirs, so it would be more prudent for them to either curb their expectations or go elsewhere.

Savage is a poorly designed disaster, everybody knows it. I'm glad that they're easing up and making it more mechanical and execution heavy.

[Evangela]

Some people think that doing just the bare minimum of what their job required them to do is good enough.

It's like people who aim to pass the exams with the minimum scores. They can pass, they can graduate, but who wants to hire someone like that to work for them?

[RyuRoots]

So this is just a whole thread around "I have no idea what the issue actually is and will spend pages of text proving this". Though this is what everyone (who doesn't actively love being a glorified dps) says if they have any "argument" against people who dislike this atrocious state of affairs.

[Astral145]

I don't care what anyone says about the current dps meta for end game because we all know that the real end game is about that glamour.... I just hope SE gives us a huge toosh glamour... this flat butt hurts when I sit... I need a nice cushion to sit on while I wait 2 hours for an expert que to pop in df...

[Ultima]

I don't care what anyone says about the current dps meta for end game because we all know that the real end game is about that glamour.... I just hope SE gives us a huge toosh glamour... this flat butt hurts when I sit... I need a nice cushion to sit on while I wait 2 hours for an expert que to pop in df...

I wonder why you have to wait 2 hours for EXR? Could it be that people quit the game because they're not happy with the state of Heavensward and 3.1 or could it be that EXR is useless when you can farm Diadem for better than Savage gear + Esoterics? :^)

[Evangela]

not sure if people on Diabolos have to wait that long but we Balmungians have to wait around just 6-7 minutes for Ext Roulette, even for DPS.