The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[Miyu20]

The only reason why people are demanding healers and tanks doing more DPS is because the four DPS in that group suck.

I've seen DPS do well over 1500 but if you can do 1200 DPS and have full 200 gear on Thordan Ex, you are either not eating food, not using potions or both and if you can't keep over 1000 then you are like I am with Summoner and you, my friends, need to learn a better rotation.

Learn a little more about your class. Practice on striking dummies and start with a learning party. No matter how hard it gets for healers, I'm not going to listen to some stupid DPS telling me I need to DPS more.

I am a scholar that DPS more than I have to in that fight. I reach 1000 before Thordan leaves in first phase. If I am beating you in DPS, no offense to you, but know that you need to become a better DPS player. Ask your friends who are better than you for advice instead of being butt hurt by people who legitimately tell you, "you need to git gud."

[Zumi]

Soooo agree with you. I was doing A1S as PLD in a learning group. There were two people there who have it on farm, one of them being WAR main (but he was on BRD). We couldn't beat Faust, so they told me to get some STR accessories. We leave, I spend the Law for Yasha Slaying stuff, re-enter. Attempting to focus on doing damage rather than negating damage received, I was told I suck as a tank. Like, really? Was it MY fault that the DPS players couldn't be Faust to begin with?

I always tell people, "If you want a tank that can dps, do not invite me; I am 100% a VIT PLD.". That said, I just stay on NIN as much as possible.

If you can't beat faust that isn't the tanks fault for sure that is some bad dps.

[Arrius]

If you can't beat faust that isn't the tanks fault for sure that is some bad dps.

Which brings the need of official parsers back on the plan, but that can also divide the community due to the elite behavior of some players knocking on it, '1500+ DPS or bust'.

[Ashkendor]

The only reason why people are demanding healers and tanks doing more DPS is because the four DPS in that group suck.

It's not always bad DPS though. Look at the world first clears this time around - the people that were clearing early on were still basically undergeared for the content when it was actually cleared. I don't think you can say they suck by any stretch of the word. There's a point at which your DPS are as close to optimal as they're going to get unless you wait around a few weeks and gear; rather than trying to squeeze blood from that stone, you look for other sources of damage, i.e. your tanks and healers.

Soooo agree with you. I was doing A1S as PLD in a learning group. There were two people there who have it on farm, one of them being WAR main (but he was on BRD). We couldn't beat Faust, so they told me to get some STR accessories. We leave, I spend the Law for Yasha Slaying stuff, re-enter. Attempting to focus on doing damage rather than negating damage received, I was told I suck as a tank. Like, really? Was it MY fault that the DPS players couldn't be Faust to begin with?

Not being able to clear Faust isn't your fault in the slightest. That's shit DPS trying to blame someone else.

If you have a PLD, just have them tank everything and let the other tank go full bore.

[Stanelis]

I really wish I understood what everybody's obsession was with trying to gimp DPSing tanks. When I don't have any of my friends online and I make the mistake of joining Duty Finder solo, I can say with absolute certainty that I ADORE the ability to pick up the slack of my team and throw out enough damage to beat all but the most sharp of DPS players. I'm reasonably certain that if that power of mastery was taken away from me, the ability to be so good at my role that I'm able to do my job AND THEN some, it would push me away from tanking.

And to be frank, Tanks and Healers have been able to DPS since the advent of 2.0, but NOW it's a huge problem and everybody wants it to change?

The issue isn t that healer and tank can dps, but rather than the current content make it so that the difference between a good tank/heal and a bad one is merely the damage output of the player. What should matter in raids for tank or healer is their ability to tank or heal (eg keep player alive) and not their sheer output of DPS.

Raids of heavensward are so poorly designed that there are seldom any decent tank (such as adds to tank, as an example) or healer mechanics, which makes SE rely on healer and tank to DPS in order to create difficulty for the role.

[SargentToughie]

doot doot

Yeah, I discussed this earlier on. However, I'm pretty certain that when it comes to raiding in this game, getting out more damage is always going to be the endgame. Looking at 3.0 we've got a huge slew of new damage skills on all tanks and healers, and due to the formulaic setup that each raid boss has with their skills and tank busters, excess mitigation is pointless.

Is that the way it SHOULD be? Depends on your playstyle and preferences. This is the way that FF14 is, and I'm pretty certain that it's the way that FF14 always will be.

[Ultima]

Raids of heavensward are so poorly designed that there are seldom any decent tank (such as adds to tank, as an example) or healer mechanics, which makes SE rely on healer and tank to DPS in order to create difficulty for the role.

Well, it isn't going to change. This is the path that FF 14 has chosen. 4.0 is already in the planning phase and their only big change for 3.2 so far is that they're gonna alter the Tank damage formula. They won't remove DPS checks and they won't try to make the game require more intensive heals and tanking. The last time we had a fight that really pushed healers was like Titan HM at low item level where you had to prepare Medica 2 in advance to keep the team alive, people want this easier content. Yoshida has made no effort to make Midcore content.

[KazuneHypnotik]

It wouldn't be such a problem for a healer to dps if tanks weren't so damn squishy with strength accessories on. When a tank has full vitality accessories on and pushing 20k HP then I can dps comfortably with my healer and get through the DF with no problems but everyone has this mentality that both healers and tanks need to push top dps out. Well I got news for you all.. If a tank is running with strength set and barely to no vit accessories then I'm sitting back and healing. Even with vit accessories on, tanks are still technically dpsing to keep enmity. So why not just run vit so the healer can dps comfortably and all 4 or 8 players can dps without a risk of a wipe because of a squishy ass tank

Let's see how many people disagree with this

-brings popcorn-

[SargentToughie]

Gr8 b8 8/8 m8

Alright, I'll disagree with you.

Full fending accessories give me about 4k HP. That's absolutely abysmal. If you need that extra 4k HP to keep me alive you're either lagging to the point where you shouldn't be DFing, or need to be a better healer. Because I play WAR, I actually get more HP refunded through Inner Beast, Equilibrium, and Bloodbath as 'effective HP' than I would if I ran full VIT. That 4k HP should never make the difference between living and dying on a tank, and the only thing that Vit accessories mean for an experienced tank player is that either:

A) You need more raw HP to survive a raid tank buster (but since you said DF that doesn't apply to you. You're probably talking about freelo EXR)
B) Either the healer or the tank are bad.

Ball is in your court. Please pass the popcorn.

[Stanelis]

Yeah, I discussed this earlier on. However, I'm pretty certain that when it comes to raiding in this game, getting out more damage is always going to be the endgame. Looking at 3.0 we've got a huge slew of new damage skills on all tanks and healers, and due to the formulaic setup that each raid boss has with their skills and tank busters, excess mitigation is pointless.

Is that the way it SHOULD be? Depends on your playstyle and preferences. This is the way that FF14 is, and I'm pretty certain that it's the way that FF14 always will be.

Well high damage should be expected from DPS in high end content. However, different things should be expected from tanks or healers.

As I said, if the only way tanks or healer can make a difference is by their DPS, then the game has a huge issue and won't last long (the raids anyway).