The new raiding meta is making me want to quit.

[Jim_Berry]

I don't know what happened on SE's end, but now that everyone *demands* so much out of tanks and healers, it's started to push me away from the game. I blame savage and it's extremely high difficulty, and find this sort of community meta disgusting when healers are getting kicked for not doing enough damage. Tanks too. What ever happened to healers healing and tanks tanking? Healer/tank dps was always supposed to be a solo thing or a luxury to good, well geared groups.

Not even just that. I see PF groups asking for iLv200 and TeamSpeak for Thordan. Some folks are limiting access to Diadem by only wanting 1 of each job there. And if you don't have Alexander 2 or 3 Savage experience, you are lucky to get in A1S group. Such is the reason why I play how I play now.

[Ashkendor]

not only that, didn't Yoshida deliberately nerf one of the new EX dungeons because it was too taxing on the healers? I seriously think that he doesn't have a proper grasp on the difficulty of healing in this game, since my healer friend is able to do the new EXR while texting.

Or your healer friend is just a good healer. I believe in one of the interviews, they said that they playtest the content by going in on classes they aren't familiar with so that's probably part of why things ends up so scaled-down.

[DarkmoonVael]

After raiding on Scholar since 2.0, i have quit Scholar due to Savage Alexander and moved to Machinist. The fact that people are now analysing Scholar performance only in how much dps they can do shows how badly designed these raids are. I manage a lot of dps in all of the previous raids, but never was such an emphasis placed on it until now. Doesnt matter that i can out heal most people easily on Scholar and know how to use all of its toolset correctly, all Scholar has come down to is do X amount of dps, let fairy heal a lot and occasionally leave clerics to do something. We managed good progression, but dear lord i hate it that Scholar has basically become a watered down summoner with safety blanket healing added in. Still love my Scholar kind of outside of raids, but the meta has made me move class.

[SargentToughie]

Or your healer friend is just a good healer. I believe in one of the interviews, they said that they playtest the content by going in on classes they aren't familiar with so that's probably part of why things ends up so scaled-down.

I mean, you either have that problem, or you have the problem as stated on page 4 where healer mains just straight up aren't having as much fun in this game because Yoshida keeps throwing them underhanded softballs because he's afraid that they'll get a bruised knee and cry to mommy if he throws something too harsh at them.

Which, might I remind you, is the point of this thread. Healers don't want to DPS, they want to heal. The game, however, doesn't let them.

[DragonSlayer45]

not only that, didn't Yoshida deliberately nerf one of the new EX dungeons because it was too taxing on the healers? I seriously think that he doesn't have a proper grasp on the difficulty of healing in this game, since my healer friend is able to do the new EXR while texting.

I assume you aren't aware of pre-nerf Pharos Sirius normal. They nerfed that one too because it required the healers to actually do their job and not sit there and twiddle their thumbs. Maybe this is why we don't seem to get anymore intensive healer or tank checks anymore. Only DPS check after DPS check after DPS check until the cows come home.

[Xatsh]

Tanks primary goal should be negating dmg and maintaining hate not dealing leet dps... in top tier endgame situations a tank should never be expected to go full str spec with full str accessories to hit dps checks.... that is just wrong.

The whole get good is just people buying into the whole if you are a good tank/healer you are dealing 700-1000dps while doing your job mentality when in all honesty that is not your job. A good tank should be judged on dmg negated not dmg delt.

The whole every fight has a dps check needs to stop, some are ok it is a valid mechanic, but this 11min rage on every single top tier fight now for over 2+ yrs is just getting old now and it is making it where we have no tank/healer clases.

Right now we have garbage dps with some support, garbage dps that can take a hit, and dps that hit hard but have no utility or defense.

[Ultima]

I assume you aren't aware of pre-nerf Pharos Sirius normal. They nerfed that one too because it required the healers to actually do their job and not sit there and twiddle their thumbs. Maybe this is why we don't seem to get anymore intensive healer or tank checks anymore. Only DPS check after DPS check after DPS check until the cows come home.

I assume you aren't aware of why Pharos was actually nerfed. It was the only dungeon in the roulette that was hard compared the two easy options added at the same time. DPS had to learn how to hold their damage to prevent the Zu from murdering the healer while the healer had to heal through the constant damage. Pharos would've been fine if it was listed as Midcore content instead of being in a roulette with Easy dungeons.

[SargentToughie]

doot doot.

I'm assuming you missed my post from the last page, so I'm just gonna repost it for you.

Every single fight since the very beginning of 2.0 follows the same forumula. Weak attacks, powerful skill, more weak attacks, TANK BUSTER!!!, weak attacks. You only ever need as much HP and defensive capabilities as is required to survive the buster, everything else is overkill and meaningless. High end raiding in FFXIV will ALWAYS be about seeing how much defensive capability that the tanks can strip off in order to make way for more damage as well. And if they somehow over tune a boss to the point where it takes tanks months of grinding in full tank gear to survive? Well, goodbye raiding scene. Savage has pretty much already demolished endgame raiding in this game to the point of no repair as it is already, and that would be even worse.

The fact that WAR got 3 damage skills in 3.0, PLD got 2, DRK got such massive potencies out of the gate, WHM got 3 damage skills, and SCH got Broil, also proves that Yoshida visions mastery in this game as being able to do your job, while maximizing the damage you deal as well. No damage forumla change is going to change that. As long as FF14 is a game, there will be DPSing tanks/healers, and it goes without saying that more damage is always greater than less damage, in every single instance in the game.

[Kit-Kat]

After raiding on Scholar since 2.0, i have quit Scholar due to Savage Alexander and moved to Machinist. The fact that people are now analysing Scholar performance only in how much dps they can do shows how badly designed these raids are. I manage a lot of dps in all of the previous raids, but never was such an emphasis placed on it until now. Doesnt matter that i can out heal most people easily on Scholar and know how to use all of its toolset correctly, all Scholar has come down to is do X amount of dps, let fairy heal a lot and occasionally leave clerics to do something. We managed good progression, but dear lird i hate it that Scholar has basically become a watered down summoner with safety blanket healing added in. Still love my Scholar kind of outside of raids, but the meta has made me move class.

I was WHM on SCoB (2nd healer prefered to be sch) and 2nd coil was fun. Then we switched roles for FCoB and I started to hate raiding as SCH even more. I never liked to dps as a healer in a raid, I wanted to be busy healing and mitigating, but I did it anyway specially in T12 for the sake of the party to make it easier on bennus, killing all blackfires on my own with shitty accuracy raging at missing spells while people focused on nuking boss. But on 3.0 I gave up on that as it got worse, I went astrologian (before they got tweaked) and people didn't want them, and then I stopped raiding. Now I do it as a BLM. I only use SCH now when I have to heal a roulette 4ppl dungeon, because as much as I hate it, it just makes it faster. I've ran full experts in cleric stance while fairy healed the whole run. But basically yea, 3.0 made me drop SCH completely.

[Jim_Berry]

*SNIP*

The whole get good is just people buying into the whole if you are a good tank/healer you are dealing 700-1000dps while doing your job mentality when in all honesty that is not your job. A good tank should be judged on dmg negated not dmg delt.

*SNIP*

Soooo agree with you. I was doing A1S as PLD in a learning group. There were two people there who have it on farm, one of them being WAR main (but he was on BRD). We couldn't beat Faust, so they told me to get some STR accessories. We leave, I spend the Law for Yasha Slaying stuff, re-enter. Attempting to focus on doing damage rather than negating damage received, I was told I suck as a tank. Like, really? Was it MY fault that the DPS players couldn't be Faust to begin with?

I always tell people, "If you want a tank that can dps, do not invite me; I am 100% a VIT PLD.". That said, I just stay on NIN as much as possible.