Diadem Gold Chests

[Loony_BoB]

You can "lose" your claim if the person who claimed it dies. Not sure if it still keeps the claim should others in your party still have sufficient hate, but in 21 Diadems I have yet to see a single red claim not drop a chest unless we legitimately lost the claim to the mob. Also, tracks != claims, not sure if perhaps those two who were stating as such were aware of that. You don't get instant claim of a mob you spawn via tracks (although I do feel you should).

[Welsper59]

You can "lose" your claim if the person who claimed it dies. Not sure if it still keeps the claim should others in your party still have sufficient hate, but in 21 Diadems I have yet to see a single red claim not drop a chest unless we legitimately lost the claim to the mob. Also, tracks != claims, not sure if perhaps those two who were stating as such were aware of that. You don't get instant claim of a mob you spawn via tracks (although I do feel you should).

If someone has done something in your party that registers as putting you in combat to that mob prior to the person dying, claim will still be yours. The exception to this are when the bug that was brought up happens, where the game cannot register you as a participant of the battle, regardless of the fact you are actively attacking it or healing people that do have threat on it. And yes, you are right about the chest drop if you have claim. It's a guaranteed thing, unlike full credit on Hunt mobs.

[Stupiduglytaru]

Sounds like low dps to me, our group with 3 dps 2 tanks were able to receive credit on stars during dino zerg mode.

[Dezwaan]

That's the thing. I have had mixed experience. My wife and I went just the two of us (duo) (WAR/SCH) and through the claim system and just staying alive have done better than some full parties I have been in with.

It will take more experience and information to test, but there is probably an HP% threshold a party has to do in order to get credit if the mob isn't claimed. So with three parties if each contribute the same that's 33% of the mobs health. Compare this to all 9 parties in a zerg if it is split evenly that is 11%. One can assume that the threshold is somewhere around 15%.

Tried doing an alliance run in HM last night where we farmed 24 people away from everyone else. The DPS and pulls weren't fast enough in my opinion for 24 to be enough people. I think half the zone or 4-5 parties is probably ideal if a group is lacking or isn't as good as other groups to meet that HP threshold amount.

[TiaHeart]

The enmity/threat bar not appearing, despite attacking the target, is an issue that has existed since (at least) The Hunt. It pretty much happens when there are too many around the area attacking the same target. The amount of threat or damage you do is irrelevant due to this. That being said, if you are late to the attack of a V and Star rank, just like an S rank Hunt target, you may come across the problem of no threat generation... meaning your actions/damage is registering, but the game is not applying it towards your own credit. The proof of this is the fact that you're not even in combat, despite attacking...

Essentially, you're more of a detriment to your group trying to get credit for someone elses claim by attacking and speeding up the kill simply because the game does not recognize you as being in combat, and the damage you do is registered as an unknown to the encounter lol.

This i would agree with 100%. Its buggy the way eros explained.

No its not ONLY about the party lacking dps.
That wouldnt explain the least how we get no credits with a default 8 man party (some attacking star a tiny bit late and never ever generate agro), but continue farming very sucessful after 2 dps left seeing how we failed credit. We got credit with 1 t 2 h 3 dd, where before we failed with 1 t 2 h 5 dd. Has little to do with slacking when we are talking about the same party. Maybe the same people just managed to get registered by a quicker fast hit, or because some people left / the overall playernumber registering for the star went down.

Sounds like low dps to me, our group with 3 dps 2 tanks were able to receive credit on stars during dino zerg mode.

No, no. U can dish out enough with 5 people, but fail the next mob with the very same 5 people PLUS 3 others. Its not ONLY about the baddies. There are issues to be adressed D:
We got no credit with 8 people, but with 6. Same run, same people, just 10 minutes later. And another 10 minutes later with 5 because one was dcing. Nobody died, idled or leeched on the 8 man. They just brought in their first shots 3 seconds late.We ended up with just two or three people on the list, although all 8 were fighting it after a short time (still, too late)

The reason many have this impression is: the people you roll with most are generally fast to register on the NM, so they get on the credit list. The others may also do a bit less damage, but whats actually worse is their first hit being to late (awareness/greed/focus, not mere dps!)

[Yurihyuga]

It is supposed to be about doing enough damage but there is an underlying problem that only so many people can be on the enmity list for a single mob. Quite a major limitation that needs sorting to be honest, if your party is not registered on the enmity list then no matter how much dmg you do it counts as 0 participation.

[RiceisNice]

You must be this high to ride the loot train. People won't admit it, but I see my fair share of people who can't play their jobs optimally and still expect to get soemthing. At this point we're looking at 210 loot that may be on par with eso/gordian, it's not too much to ask to know how to play your job to meet the dps checks for looting.

That being said though, I'm pretty damn sure that SE did not intend for more than 5 parties seeing in one island farming mobs over and over. Last night in HM we had so many people the mobs were dying too fast and my party was starting to lose out chests on some rank IIIs and even star ranks due to everyone being so greedy on tanking aggro and ignoring the mobs. We eventually had to switch to tiny arms island to have tanky enough monsters for every single party, as well as get our party tank to just dps and offtank adds because the other groups are too stubborn/greedy to do so.

It is supposed to be about doing enough damage but there is an underlying problem that only so many people can be on the enmity list for a single mob. Quite a major limitation that needs sorting to be honest, if your party is not registered on the enmity list then no matter how much dmg you do it counts as 0 participation.

Do you have proof of this? If that was honestly the case, FATEs wouldn't be working and neither would hunts, espesically the latter when I've been there when it was released on 2.0, the monster wouldn't ever render on my screen but I can still tap it with ground targetted AoEs. If what you said was true for 0 partcipation, I wouldn't get the bare minimum for tapping with AoE, let alone full with a decent party (and never mind the fact that this was never a problem, just "early pulls")

...
No, no. U can dish out enough with 5 people, but fail the next mob with the very same 5 people PLUS 3 others. Its not ONLY about the baddies. There are issues to be adressed D:
We got no credit with 8 people, but with 6. Same run, same people, just 10 minutes later. And another 10 minutes later with 5 because one was dcing. Nobody died, idled or leeched on the 8 man. They just brought in their first shots 3 seconds late.We ended up with just two or three people on the list, although all 8 were fighting it after a short time (still, too late)

You need to do X amount of damage to get credit. When there's more people in the area, the boss dies faster and less time to DPS. If you have less people, the dps requirement becomes much tighter when you consider the shorter kill-window. There's a lot of things to consider, whether or not they were actually dpsing (because most people won't admit that they were slacking, or stay silent when I'm calling them out) or debuffs/adds. The other problem is that when you have so many people, there's also the 60 debuff limitation. It really hurts if you a SMN or MCH because good handful of their dps comes from DoTs/wildfire.

[Kyani]

You need to do X amount of damage to get credit. When there's more people in the area, the boss dies faster and less time to DPS. If you have less people, the dps requirement becomes much tighter when you consider the shorter kill-window.

The other night in Diadem, with the same groups present for both NMs, my warrior, my friend's black mage and our ninja were the only 3 people who did enough burst damage to get a threat bar on a Star Rank. We got a gold chest. Immediately after, another S rank was popped, and 6/8 of us had threat bars visible... but no Gold Chest.

There's something else at work - every indicator the game provided suggests that we did better on the second NM than the first, but the rewards don't line up with that. These are good players - no trouble with Hand of Pain, historically had no problems pushing phases in other content - but they're still not "good enough" to reliably hit the threshold?

[RiceisNice]

The other night in Diadem, ?

Did you have the first hit on the first nm? Did you get the first hit on the second? You can tell if they had a red or purple hp bar and name.

If appearing on the threat bar had any relation, then anyone that can use provoke can get themselves right on top of the enmity list.

[Kyani]

Did you have the first hit on the first nm? Did you get the first hit on the second? You can tell if they had a red or purple hp bar and name.

If appearing on the threat bar had any relation, then anyone that can use provoke can get themselves right on top of the enmity list.

Nope, purple tag for both, as well as the same number of other parties (and a similar kill speed). These aren't lazy players, either, though they do have a mix of Hive & Antiquated weapons - they're all between i195 and i205. The simplest answer is that my group was riding the threshold, but that doesn't really explain why my group "looked" worse the first time but performed better.