New Shield Swipe - role is reversed?

[Myric]

Yeah, he's totally trolling or he's just extremely ignorant on tanking and what the stats do.
2.0] Player attributes have been adjusted as follows:
Skilspeed and spellspeed now affect damage over time and healing over time effects.
The effect of determination on auto-attacks has been reduced.
Critical hit rate now affects damage dealt with a critical strike.
Certain attributes no longer affect parry or block. <-----Str and Dex no longer do anything for these stats

[Malicewolf]

Sorry bud. What they are saying is true as I was also one of those people super excited to use a Dex/Str combo to give my tank better block rates/dmg reduction. You keep saying you have the proof, but have you switched your gear off of Dex yet to see the difference with, say, a STR build? I have almost zero stats in Dex now and I still block a LOT of hits. Like, a lot. Unless you are blocking every single hit you take, I doubt you are seeing a big increase.

[Myric]

You guys, this is sad. Please stop feeding the troll.

I just looked at his profile, if he's trolling, he's going all the way lol

[Jpec07]

Your quote is exactly what I'm talking about and they haven't removed the effect of DEX on Shields. LMAO belligerent would mean that I'm a subordinate to others. I'm a player and I want this game to have depth to it. Not a plug and play game or pay to win. That seems to be the direction of players like yourself. If it goes there I won't play it anymore.

Belligerent (adj.): hostile and aggressive

All I'm saying is that you're being very confrontational in your discussion here. The 3.0 patch notes expicitly stated that the defensive aspects of Strength, Dexterity, and anything that wasn't Vitality or Parry were removed. Don't have a link handy, but even so. What I'm struggling to understand is why you think SE would lie to us about that. It doesn't make sense.

I will agree, though. I do wish there was more depth to the stats in this game, and that there were more ways to fine tune and tweak your characters. But at the same time, I understand that it could create a job balance nightmare, so I can see why they simplified it.

I bet you haven't even used materia in this way in the game. I bet your first time playing it was to get to end game content to get looted gear for the next dungeon. iLVL crazed players... SMH

Is there a point to your invective here? I'm trying to entertain a discussion, and no one is being hostile towards you. We're all on a level playing field here, and most of us are just trying to help correct an error in your understanding.

To wit, no, I haven't used Materia because until 3.1, it hasn't been usable on green or blue gear--and the other pieces are replaced too quickly to make it worth the price while leveling. My first playthrough was actually to soak in the story and enjoy the world and environment. Multiplayer content has been a bonus, but I have had the pleasure of going through the story mode and enjoying myself several times now. I haven't gotten into an Alexander Savage group because the raid culture on my server is kind of dead--that, and I kind of like not having to care about keeping that kind of schedule, or shelling out millions of Gil to accomplish the fabled pentameld. But now we're off topic.

On point: the change in 3.1 feels awkward, and pulls a bunch of utility out of the ability. Having a proccing oGCD ability is nice, but the long cooldown makes it much less exciting than it would have been.

Also, you do see the Buckler/Kite/Scutum aspect in endgame, but the ability to pick and choose which type of shield you use is a bit of a privilege reserved for only for people who can consistently farm Ex and Savage content.

[Pileus_Storm]

You guys, this is sad. Please stop feeding the troll.

Dex never had much effect on block/parry rates and it certainly does not now. Even when it did have an effect, VIT and parry had a much more substantial effect on mitigation than dex melds. We also get defense for going up a tier of gear so it's totally illogical to get lower ilevel gear and melds dexterity to it...

That's a matter of opinion if you haven't done it and I'm not talking about iLVL gear that doesn't meet a dungeon requirements. Most dungeon drops aren't expandable which limits its defense. VIT and PAR are passive stats and are effective if active defensive stats happen. I'm not trolling. I'm telling you I'm playing the game and this is what I'm doing and it's working. I think trolling is a phrase used when the masses don't agree with a minority opinion.

[Pileus_Storm]

I went to the patch notes and it doesn't mention anything to that degree. So you're delusional. Now I'm being aggressive. I can't help it if my opinion weighs on you so heavily. My comments are to inform you that you are caught up in the influence and haven't even looked into what is and what isn't. Try it out. Put on fending accessories and see how often you trigger block and parry. Then put on aiming accessories and see how often it triggers block and parry and tell me if you see a difference. The change in Shield Swipe recast time limits the usefulness of this skill that has no TP or MP usage.

[Jpec07]

No, trolling is what's used when people perceive someone as deliberately attempting to aggravate them or waste their time.

Also, it's not really an opinion. It's a stated fact that has been proven through group testing; the consensus is that the patch notes are correct, and that Dex and Str don't have any defensive aspect to them anymore. Your own experience may be subject to cognitive bias - specially, a framing effect, where because you want Dex to work, you perceive it as effective, while other factors might have had a greater impact.

Do you have any logs or parses to prove what you're suggesting? I think if we had data to examine, we'd be more liable to believe what you're saying. We're not closed-minded ignorant buffoons, we just have a very large body of evidence to back up our positions.

I went to the patch notes and it doesn't mention anything to that degree. So you're delusional. Now I'm being aggressive. I can't help it if my opinion weighs on you so heavily. My comments are to inform you that you are caught up in the influence and haven't even looked into what is and what isn't. Try it out. Put on fending accessories and see how often you trigger block and parry. Then put on aiming accessories and see how often it triggers block and parry and tell me if you see a difference. The change in Shield Swipe recast time limits the usefulness of this skill that has no TP or MP usage.

Alright, I'll give it a shot and see. Nothing like a manual log parse to take up the evening (though really, just comparing instances of damage taken to the instances of blocks should be enough to validate your claim to some degree). I've been Law capped for a while now, so I may as well give this a shot. To level the playing field, I'll also pick up a full set of 170 Fending, just so my 190 and 200 pieces don't skew the results. I'm otherwise fully Esoteric geared. Sounds like a fun experiment to me.

EDIT: To test, I will be queueing as an undersized party for Fractal Continuum by myself. I won't do any rotation abilities or cooldowns, and will do nothing but the first trash pull, letting them whittle me down (I'd do a boss, but they don't really have much damage that can be blocked). I'll do 5 pulls like this in Fending, and 5 pulls in Aiming, and then I'll post the logs here, with my manual parse. Does this sound like a good way to test it to you?

EDIT 2: I also won't be able to perform this test until this evening, sadly.

[Ashkendor]

Certain attributes no longer affect parry or block. <-----Str and Dex no longer do anything for these stats

This. We already know the effect of STR was removed (my block strength went from 35% to 20%) so why would DEX remain?

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Malicewolf]

Well, I can't say I've done the testing at a higher ilvl, but I was a Dex build up at level 44ish. I thought I was blocking more and better. Now, with my Str build, I find I'm pretty much blocking just as often. Of course, my blocks are better because of better gear, but I saw no substantial difference. I'd be interested to see the results at a higher ilvl though regardless. Looking forward to your results Jpec.

[Pileus_Storm]

In none of the patch it mentions these changes you ppl are referring to. NONE OF THEM.
Plus, none of you are showing any links. LMAOLAMF.

I think you all are confusing them mentioning that DEX will be the STR for defined DPS job roles and will be applied to the gear for these job roles. In turn replacing the aspect of needing to add STR to DPS roles because DEX will be the attack power instead of STR. A lot of ppl are confused about that. They did not eliminate the complimentary aspects of DEX and STR. They just eliminated the need to use STR for DPS. Still, with PAR you need some STR to mitigate damage. I'm not trolling I'm just letting you know and anyone who read this post that it hasn't been changed the way you think.

Also ppl think that the gear works because they go to low level dungeons with high level gear and these changes work. LMBO... That's so sad.