New Shield Swipe - role is reversed?

[Myric]

I'm probably going to do that test anyway, though. Just because I'm having a hard time finding baseline data to analyze.

Here are some very old charts http://valk.dancing-mad.com/methodology/#BnP There isn't anything to test though since 3.0.

[Pileus_Storm]

Here are some very old charts http://valk.dancing-mad.com/methodology/#BnP There isn't anything to test though since 3.0.

I tested the update changes and you guys were right and I'm done with this game. It's become a game where all I have to do is plug and play gear on with no thought. Which is on a pay to win scope IMO. Where all you have to do to complete a dungeon is remember a pattern of avoiding attacks just to survive. What's the fun in that. I've never run from a fight or avoided trouble. I'm not gonna start now and especially not in a game. Your character is basically like everyone else's character minus the gear drops.


Thanks for the dream SE but I have to move on to something that will excite my intellect.

[Jpec07]

snip

The restrictive roles and builds of this game certainly aren't for everyone. One of the guild-mates of mine who came with my friends and I to FFXIV from WoW used to relish the opportunity to do things that his chosen spec wasn't supposed to be able to do (and he was good). But because FFXIV is as restrictive as it is, he just wasn't happy and couldn't be satisfied on any of his characters, and so dropped the game.

I do hope you find a game that suits your interests, Pileus. I hear Rift allows for some crazy in-depth customization like what you seem to be looking for, and what I've seen of the gameplay is pretty damn good. You might also try TOR, because I believe they just also did an ARR-style revamp (though I can't speak to customizing or hybridizing your character). Good luck, in any case!

[Pileus_Storm]

LMAO @the comment with my avatar.

It wasn't as restrictive as it is now until ppl started complaining about the dungeon drops with the stat builds on them. Saying that these stats weren't as active as the should be. No blocks were occurring when geared up with fending gear which is loaded with parry. Then the idea that you'd parry and block more with DEX was tedious because DEX was a stat for DPS. They tried to make this game with depth. The fact that ppl felt that it would take up a lot of time there needed to be a simplified attribute system. I watched the change occur hoping the attribute change wouldn't be THIS restrictive and so simplified. It's more for children now. They can just level up and play. Go through dungeons follow someone's lead and they'd be set.

[SpookyGhost]

I tested the update changes and you guys were right and I'm done with this game.

DEX affecting Block was never really a thing that mattered, if you were gearing toward DEX you were only gimping yourself. I think you fell for some weird illusion of choice you forced into existence. This game has always been extremely linear on gear progression, the only avenue that ever existed that deviated from the norm was tanks wearing Pentamelds/STR accessories. If you're quitting over the lack of variety in gearing then I totally understand, but it's... strange that it took you this long to realize that was a thing in this game.

[Pileus_Storm]

I wasn't gimping myself. It was a stat that affected the rate of blocking and my intention was to use it in a variety of ways with the different types of shields. It was pretty useful in the earlier versions of the game but as players seemed to juggle multiple jobs they couldn't seem to grasp the concept of a job using two weapons needing DEX. They just looked at as if the defense stat on the gear should trigger a block. Which in my mind is kind of simple and too easy. All you have to do is put on armor and you have the skills of a seasoned gladiator. Instead of adjusting your DEX to accommodate the block rates for specific shields. Which would separate knowledgeable players from ppl who just want to run through content because an item in a dungeon looks nice. My trek through dungeons would have been with crafted gear with materia melded to it for a more challenging feel.

[Pileus_Storm]

It was intended for that. If it wasn't it would've never been there in the earlier stages of the game. It was the community cry about DEX is a stat that shouldn't be used on a GLD/tank for a block effect. So ppl started putting on fending gear just because it dropped by default for the job. I thought the specific drops of a job was to be used with cross classes because they all have the ALL CLASSES in the job use on the accessory. Giving players the option to modify their character to their liking. But the community had post so many comments about this concept and now it makes no sense to use any accessory other than an accessory with stats that benefit it's job.

Right now I'm thinking I should use my alt and do the DoM since they haven't messed up the magic stats.

The objective was to meld just enough DEX to trigger a block not in essence to replace STR. Again you are thinking just like the others for DEX being used for DPS attack power..
What you put up there doesn't make any sense. You are statting the gear as if they have added effects. The shields are for defense and the class skills are used as threat. You have Shield Lob, Shield Bash and Shield Swipe. Their potency are listed as well as their added affect. The Shields don't generate a damage potency.

STR + Buckler

None of the shield have any added affect attached to them. They have delay and auto attack time. The extra crap you have there is you imagining what they do. I think you have no idea what you're talking about and trying to find out whether I know what I'm talking about.

[db:item=95275db45ac]Iron Lantern Shield[/db:item]

The objective of DEX would be to take advantage of the block rate. The higher the block rate the least amount of DEX a player would need to affix to gear and I wouldn't necessarily affix it to the shield. DEX could be put in any piece of gear to reach the minimal amount required. Leaving room for other stats that could contribute to offense. Like the lantern has ACC which is a passive ability and you could add DET and CRT. You are thinking pretty narrow minded and small. Some gear can affix 5 pieces of materia to them that leaves a possibility of a lot of stat options. Spread across 12 pieces of combined gear and accessories.

[SpookyGhost]

Here's a pretty easy run down:

STR + Buckler = High threat, high damage, high block rate, average block strength
DEX + Tower = average block rate, high block strength
STR + Kite = High threat, high damage, average block rate, high block strength
DEX + Kite = high block rate, average block strength

So any situation where you could've melded STR but instead melded DEX, you end up at a loss of damage and consequently threat. What you gain is more block rating, which sounds great on paper but DEX actually scaled horribly and it required a huge amount of DEX to make any splash of difference at all. On top of this the increased block rating usually didn't make any difference at all, as it still has a very low chance to proc on tank busters and it's impossible to tell if the DEX made any difference at all on that. The sole use of DEX was on crafted left side equipment, however this only had use in early progression as the VIT + STR + secondaries you gained from higher ilvl gear instantly outweigh the benefits of DEX.

If things were kept as is, PLDs would still stack STR in 3.0 as the current meta calls for high tank damage and PLD gained Sheltron which is a free block every 30s. If you had the option between slightly raising the chance that Shield Swipe would proc when you wanted it to (and slightly raising your block % chance) or increasing Sheltron's mitigation %, which would you take?

I wish there was a choice because I love the idea of having multiple gearing paths that have different positive effects on how you play. I think that would be healthy for the game and I think it would allow for some playstyle variance. But unfortunately, DEX just did very little and only had one niche use.

[Pileus_Storm]

Every time I explain it to you ppl you get it twisted. It's almost like you think you know more than me. If a gear piece has STR on it the chance of you getting more STR in the gear piece that's already in it is impossible so why even try? That's asinine. Why would you put STR materia in a piece of gear that already has a lot of STR in it already you're wasting materia and slots. I know no matter how much I explain it to you you won't see what I mean.

For instance an accessory that has VIT and PAR on it I could add STR and DEX but that all depends on the amount of DEX I needed. Which I may not need to add it to the accessory if I can put enough in a gear set that has a bunch of STR in it. So in a VIT and PAR accessory I may be able to max out on STR instead of trying to squeeze low level materia in a slot in my body gear filled with STR by default.

So you'd try to put more STR in the shield with STR already in it?

I can tell by your comment you're lying about DEX not making a difference. When I used it in dungeons ppl were amazed at how much my character was mitigating damage and this was crafted gear with materia melded to it strategically. I didn't overload DEX when using a high block rate shield and my STR was awesome because damage mitigation was at zero, and dodges and parry was zero. I'm speaking from experience not assumption.
The healer shouted to the party that he was healing the DPS more than the tank and I had all the hate. He tried to take hate but couldn't. I've been in dungeons were ppl would get mad cause I had DEX on my gear but when I fight started they kept quiet. The party survived but they died because they didn't like most ppl set up defense on their character. I also think the healer stopped healing him because he was acting like it was my fault his character was taking a lot of damage while he had no hate on him.
Ppl messed up a fun game because of ignorant perspectives.

[Jpec07]

Probably not, because the gear you get from level 60 dungeons doesn't have materia slots. And even though they did (will?) add the ability to meld materia to 200 stuff, you're forced into secondary stats (only proper sockets can hold INT, STR, and DEX anymore - advanced melding only works on secondary stat materia).