3.1 : Astrologian "adjustments''

[ZAZX]

I'm terrified of posting opinions here but I'll take the chance. Disclaimer: I main AST, I don't DPS as I'd rather play it as a Buffer class (I think that's what Square intended too.) and I'm i189 overall currently. Also I don't do savage, so that may void my opinion in some senses but I feel what I'm saying here has relation outside savage. I also joined the forum soley to post this and have very little idea how a Forum even works, so sorry if I messed up somewhere.

I think AST is perfectly fine in the heals department. Noct Stance is the "Multi-pull" Stance and Diurnal is the "Normal" stance in my experience. Keeping a tank alive in large pulls is suicide without the shields, and I say this with an i200 globe. However I want to know: WHY IN THE NAME OF THE MOTHER CRYSTAL DO I KEEP DRAWING THE SAME CARD WHEN I SHUFFLE? That isn't useful, that has literally zero point considering the ENTIRE REASON you would use Shuffle is to get a different card. And yet it happens so much I could make an honest drinking game out of it!

And for that matter... Cards are already useless to the point of AST being laughed at. Ewer cards screw up Black Mage's rotation, Summoner/Scholar don't need MP when played right, playing it on a Bard is highly situational to the point of never happening, Dark Knight can't take it while in Darkside (And if he's not in Darkside, you have a terrible DRK in my experience) and it leaves it down to playing it on the White Mage, the Paladin, or yourself. Most of the time I burn the darn things because it isn't even that much of a boost. TP cards are finally decently handy with the party's TP bars being viewable (Remind me why that wasn't in there long before 3.0? Honest question, seems like such an obvious thing especially when Ninja came around.) and Spear... Oh Spear. You're good for nothing but burning. Seriously, what duty finder group is going to be organized enough to put Spear to good use when it works like it does currently? Sure maybe if you were in a raid group over TeamSpeak or something, but why bring AST to a raid right now? That seems to be the general consensus. I've no beef with Arrow, Bole, or Balance. All of those are excellent right now in my opinion.

I do agree Celestial Opposition needs some sort of a rework, even a shorter cooldown would do it. I also think giving Gravity a second effect would be kind of neat, but it isn't something that is making or breaking the class. If I had any input to give to Square, it would be this, and for all I know this could be a horrible idea, but it is my suggestion. Allow draw to store 3-5 charges, with a charge being generated every 30s. This would allow AST to play more cards, have more utility with buffing their cards, and fix this whole mess with quite a bit of ease. Maybe allow Shuffle to do the same or shorten the cooldown on it one.

I will say this, a minor Royal Road 'adjustment' for 3.1? That's it? What a slap in the face.

Sincerely, A guy who loves Time Mages, Astronomy, and Knights. And just wants to main Astrologian and Paladin, but the current state of the game causes everybody to hate their guts.

[Vlady]

Does AST honestly even need a buff?

If they buff their shields, won't they completely phase out Scholars? Like... Entirely?

You guys might be asking for a little bit too much, at this point. I mean you have stances to switch between WHM and SCH and you want to be on par with both of them? That kind of undermines all of the people who leveled White Mage and Scholar so they could have those options.

Scholar is for now brought on more for its damage dealing abilities. Even if the astro shields are buffed we will still be used more for white mage fill ins as long as the scholar has such incredible offensive abilities. It is a damned healers conundrum where you are damned if you buff astros and damned if you nerf scholars.

Only way I can see nocturnal getting use for astros is to once more let us stance dance to utilize shields and regens. Alot of changes would have to be made but some people suggest that nocturnal be more of our offensive stance. Remove our cleric stance and let noc be our offensive stance with a unique reverse shield that reflect some damage back to those shielded would be a decent way for us to supply some damage indirectly.

[RedHerb]

Scholar is for now brought on more for its damage dealing abilities. Even if the astro shields are buffed we will still be used more for white mage fill ins as long as the scholar has such incredible offensive abilities. It is a damned healers conundrum where you are damned if you buff astros and damned if you nerf scholars.

Ah I see. I was unsure if AST even HAD DPS capability, I haven't fully leveled it myself since I enjoy WHM and SCH more for the playstyle than AST so far. A curious situation indeed.

[RedHerb]

I think they shine more through others, with the AOE balance.

[LegoTechnic]

Snip

If you draw Ewer or Spire then Royal Road them unless someone needs mana/TP. They add the spread effect which is nice.

Balance is always good. Give it to a DPS or save it for later.

If you draw Arrow and there's a BLM in your party give it to them for great justice. Arrow isn't as good as Balance but it's still a positive effect for most classes (though BLM get the most out of it typically unless you're are about to spam some Gravity).

If you pull Bole and your tank isn't paper, Shuffle or Road it. Otherwise toss on tank with a regen and DPS a round.

Spear is probably best used before a boss pull. Give it to a DPS about to use Raging Strikes or similar buffs before the tank moves in. It's also nice for a SMN as it shortens Aetherflow's cooldown, and Aetherflow is used fairly constantly so there's a good chance it will actually apply. Otherwise Shuffle or Road it because it is the worst card to draw.

[Mibgestalt]

You guys might be asking for a little bit too much, at this point. I mean you have stances to switch between WHM and SCH and you want to be on par with both of them? That kind of undermines all of the people who leveled White Mage and Scholar so they could have those options.

It is supposed to be on par in terms of capabilities, that\\'s the design. It has two stances so that all of the healing classes can fit into the same number of healing compositions effectively, which is two.

In terms of progression, difficult content, the stance swapping isn\\'t meant for versatility, its locked by encounter and because any static team is going to have a dedicated other healer, your role is going to be set.

If AST were noticeably weaker than both WHM and SCH in stances, it would be dead weight on difficult content. Arguably you can see this with nocturnal stance right now.

[RedHerb]

Yeah but in the same vein, you can just switch to SCH if you want barriers and you can switch to WHM if you want Regen. Why even have the two opposite classes if there's a middle-ground class that's Equal in every single way?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want AST to be weak specifically. I just think it's poor design to allow something that can effectively do both sides of the spectrum as well as a class that specializes in one single aspect. That's literally pointless. If you want BOTH, go level SCH AND WHM, don't pick a middle-ground and expect it to perform as well (if not better due to less work and versatility). That's simply lazy, in my opinion. I say just buff their cards so they bring something entirely different to the table and delegate them to back-up healer who is more focused on support than out-right raw numbers or barriers.

TL;DR: Give them something new (AND GOOD/USEFUL), don't phase out the old classes. Buff cards, not their heals.

[LegoTechnic]

Scholar is for now brought on more for its damage dealing abilities. Even if the astro shields are buffed we will still be used more for white mage fill ins as long as the scholar has such incredible offensive abilities. It is a damned healers conundrum where you are damned if you buff astros and damned if you nerf scholars.

OK, let's nip this in the bud. AST Combust and Combust II are the equivalent of SCH's Bio and Bio II and never miss (which is good). AST lacks Miasma and Shadowflare, but can still miss with Aero like a pro SCH. Malefic II is 30 potency stronger than Broil though, with the same cast time, and only 10 potency shy of WHM's Stone III. If you are taking a SCH for its "overwhelming DPS", then you are kidding yourself. You are taking the SCH for reliability. Ostensibly Noct abilities are all very similar--they have a Succor (same potency, .5s longer cast), a bubble (which must be channeled, as movement breaks it), and an instant adlo (which lacks the crit effect). However when comparing the card buffs and the fairies, especially Eos, then you see the reason. The fairy can on demand give party-wide magic defense, increased healing, and regen with Eos or haste with Selene depending on the need, and Deployment Tactics is the strongest shield effect in-game currently for predictable damage spikes on the party. You pop what you need to when you need it and there is no random factor involved. This is very, very useful for fights like A3S and A4S where there's a lot of predictable AoE damage to defend against. And this says nothing of the fairies free, constant healing every three to five seconds. As powerful as AST cards are, it's their very RNG nature that is probably their biggest detriment to planned raiding, even if it happens to be part of the charm of the class.

Additionally AST mana regen is pretty garbage, and this is a problem if they're expected to spam DPS like a SCH when not healing, especially if you're in A4S and letting Whirblewind go off for more DPS time. WHM have Assize to supplement Shroud and SCH can easily save an Aetherflow, but AST get only their single refresh skill which is bad, especially if they're called on to res later.

[RedHerb]

OK, let's nip this in the bud. AST Combust and Combust II are the equivalent of SCH's Bio and Bio II and never miss (which is good). AST lacks Miasma and Shadowflare, but can still miss with Aero like a pro SCH. Malefic II is 30 potency stronger than Broil though, with the same cast time, and only 10 potency shy of WHM's Stone III. If you are taking a SCH for its "overwhelming DPS", then you are kidding yourself. You are taking the SCH for reliability. Ostensibly Noct abilities are all very similar--they have a Succor (same potency, .5s longer cast), a bubble (which must be channeled, as movement breaks it), and an instant adlo (which lacks the crit effect). However when comparing the card buffs and the fairies, especially Eos, then you see the reason. The fairy can on demand give party-wide magic defense, increased healing, and regen with Eos or haste with Selene depending on the need, and Deployment Tactics is the strongest shield effect in-game currently for predictable damage spikes on the party. You pop what you need to when you need it and there is no random factor involved. This is very, very useful for fights like A3S and A4S where there's a lot of predictable AoE damage to defend against.

Additionally AST mana regen is pretty garbage, and this is a problem if their expected to spam DPS like a SCH when not healing, especially if you're in A4S and letting Whirblewind go off for more DPS time. WHM have Assize to supplement Shroud and SCH can easily save an Aetherflow, but AST get only their single refresh skill which is bad, especially if they're called on to res later.

This right here I can agree with, fix their mana regen and maybe make their cards more reliable, much like how I can rely on my fairy. Hell, just remove the RNG factor from the cards, the class might actually be FUN then.

[Mibgestalt]

TL;DR: Give them something new (AND GOOD/USEFUL), don't phase out the old classes. Buff cards, not their heals.

See I agree with your overall point. But being able to swap to either diurnal or nocturnal isn't a benefit. It's a necessity with how square designed the class. Otherwise either the WHM or Sch healing spot would be over-saturated. If they're gonna stick with this design they gotta fix it.

No one is really asking for a healing buff. The vast majority want some form of extra damage or utility in Nocturnal to match/approach Scholar.

RIght now it cant even fulfill a SCH role feasibly. It's worse than WHM in Diurnal, but almost everyone agrees it's to a fair degree atm once some adjustment to cards are taken into account.

I agree I'd love for it to be a more buff oriented class too, but at the end of the day it also has to be able to fulfill the healing requirements of a given encounter.