Thread: 3.1 : Astrologian "adjustments''

Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

OK, let's nip this in the bud. AST Combust and Combust II are the equivalent of SCH's Bio and Bio II and never miss (which is good). AST lacks Miasma and Shadowflare, but can still miss with Aero like a pro SCH. Malefic II is 30 potency stronger than Broil though, with the same cast time, and only 10 potency shy of WHM's Stone III. If you are taking a SCH for its "overwhelming DPS", then you are kidding yourself. You are taking the SCH for reliability. Ostensibly Noct abilities are all very similar--they have a Succor (same potency, .5s longer cast), a bubble (which must be channeled, as movement breaks it), and an instant adlo (which lacks the crit effect). However when comparing the card buffs and the fairies, especially Eos, then you see the reason. The fairy can on demand give party-wide magic defense, increased healing, and regen with Eos or haste with Selene depending on the need, and Deployment Tactics is the strongest shield effect in-game currently for predictable damage spikes on the party. You pop what you need to when you need it and there is no random factor involved. This is very, very useful for fights like A3S and A4S where there's a lot of predictable AoE damage to defend against. And this says nothing of the fairies free, constant healing every three to five seconds. As powerful as AST cards are, it's their very RNG nature that is probably their biggest detriment to planned raiding, even if it happens to be part of the charm of the class.

Additionally AST mana regen is pretty garbage, and this is a problem if they're expected to spam DPS like a SCH when not healing, especially if you're in A4S and letting Whirblewind go off for more DPS time. WHM have Assize to supplement Shroud and SCH can easily save an Aetherflow, but AST get only their single refresh skill which is bad, especially if they're called on to res later.

You first disagree with me then in essence agree with me. Scholar dps is not because its potency is similiar or broil is less then mal 2 it is because its dps is mana neutral for a healer and can sustain 800+ dps quite well compared to an astrologian which yes its offensive abilities are greater because of that fact alone. Not to mention you yourself also pointed out that the fairy is one hella of an ace that lets the scholar sustain its offensive abilities more easily then an astrologian ever could at this stage of the game. You have ruin 2 for times of required movement and are able to stay in cleric stance for longer periods of time because of the abilities you mentioned before.

Or are you saying that raids do not bring scholar for its ability to push strong dps without crippling the jobs ability to heal during phases that require both healers?

Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Well, yes. Even at its best, unless the fight is add intensive like A2 where Bane can do some serious work then a SCH doing their best to DPS is only going to amount to half an actual DPS class these days. I am not belittling healer DPS here, as pretty much all our first clears are more or less at the enrage timer with me DPSing my little heart out, but the difference between a SCH and an AST in primary DPS mode is going to be slight, especially if the AST is lucky with Balance draws in which case their party contribution may actually end up more overall. We ran AST/SCH for A3S and those card buffs definately helped out in making the DPS requirement for the first few weeks before the AST switched back to WHM.

Now if you're comparing WHM to SCH then there's a very real difference, as WHM lacks any DPS moves that don't rely on accuracy, so they're very susceptible to the poor state of healer hit rates that savage currently hits us with. Even as a SCH Miasma, Aero, and Broil will miss quite often, so having Bio/Bio II/Shadowflare always land is a huge benefit that AST shares with Combust/Combust II. Not to say WHM isn't considerable DPS for a healer when they need to be, as their burst is easily superior to SCH during parts like A3S's pudding phase, and Aero III/Stone III is absolutely nothing to sneeze at comparitively. But again, SCH has that reliability with the never-miss dots, and when coupled with WHM's regens and overall easier time AoE healing they tend to push the heal-DPS role onto SCH when it's just boss single target or adds beefy enough to bane. Partly because they're good at it, but also partly because WHM has an easier time keeping the raid topped off after damage.

Back on point, I will agree that a SCH being safer than an AST with regards to fairy heal is a DPS advantage between the two, but again I feel this is the reason that SCH is currently preferred, and not because their DPS results are somehow amazingly higher than other healer classes. The cards are supposed to offset the fairy, and while card abilities can prove very useful a SCH's role is primarily mitigating big damage spikes over all else, be they AoE or tank buster, and while AST can handle tank buster shielding just fine a SCH does it just a little easier. For one thing they can do other things while in Sacred Soil, and with Eos they can both shield and regen at the same time. >_>

If the astro attempts to even half way put out the numbers the scholar does they will be out of mana very quickly. It is not just a safe bet for the scholar to be the dps of the healers it is imperative basically. The astro is near worthless if they attempt to put out the damage of a scholar. I am comparing both healers dpsing in raids compared to the scholar. Itleast the white mage has some decent mana regen abilities if they are expected to dps during burst phases. You are trying to muddy the waters telling a new healer that the astrologian is on par with the scholar offensively when the last 5 months tell us different.

Originally Posted by AzureFlare

'cause Nocturnal is still miles behind a SCH. When there are ways to buff it without touching either Diurnal or affect PvP in a major way.
And being baited by RNG to Spread/RR cards isn't a lot of fun either considering the cooldown on Draw.

I am starting to think that turning nocturnal into a unique version of cleric stance with a shield that mitigates a % of damage done til the shield's hp buffer hits would be a decent compromise without totally screwing scholars. Maybe reduce some of our mana costs while in nocturnal stance and prevent cleric stance from working while in nocturnal.