I don't want to tank dungeons anymore...

[Nadirah]

Cmon if healers and DPS are "allowed" to slack in DF why tanks cant do the same? sometimes its nice to relax and play with one hand while sipping some coffee.

What are you talking about? I can already do that.

OP = whining about tanking. "I don't want to tank anymore". My response? "Then don't tank?"

[Noxifer]

You've still had 51 levels of practice... you don't need to pull everything, but pulling as little as possible at 51 is still playing way safer than is warranted by any but the absolute worst players.

I never said one didn't have practice (though with DRK, it's only 21 levels of practice, starting off at 30 -- unless the player goes through fates and leves to learn how to play from lowest possible synch). But while levelling, you're not always synched down, you're still adjusting to whatever new skill(s) you might have gotten recently, and you're more than likely not geared as well as those who are synched. And not everyone has tank as their main role, but want to level them up anyway for one reason or other. In other words, not everyone playing a tank is entirely comfortable with the role itself -- or they're used to another type of tank, and they do play very differently. And everyone has good and bad days on top of that.

But of course it's taboo to call people bad, because that makes me an elitist.

No, it doesn't. Not automatically. But depending on what criteria you place on the term 'bad' (i.e. how soon you resort to shrugging and going 'bad player') it might.
Expecting tanks to know what the dungeon contains from the second they set foot in it, including what kind of damage levels the mobs put out, what special attacks to look out for, and where random mobs might spawn out of "nowhere"... that's not really reasonable expectations. And until I've run a dungeon at least once, and thus can judge those kinds of things, I'm going to be fairly cautious in pulling. It doesn't make me a bad tank, it just means I like to know the territory before I go storming in.

That driving analogy is ridiculously hyperbolic. That would kill you. Having to pull mobs off of a healer is extremely easy, just run over and unleash. It's annoying, but like ripping the steering wheel out of someone's hands? Lol no.

Yes, it was a bit of an exaggeration. But disregarding other traffic -- pretend there's been some kind of apocalypse and you're the only car out there -- and say you're driving at lower speed limits (30-50km/h, say) it's still not acceptable behaviour from the person next to the driver. If it happens more than once, any driver would stop the car and go, "Look, if you want to drive that badly, you drive," and get out of the car.

(Also, over-pulling without any regard for the tank's gear or skill level? That can also kill you.)

[Elvin]

I feel an option for fast clears/ experienced or non experienced in duty finder would solve the casual/ cut scene complication we keep having.

Just this.


I understand that some people find fun diferent things.


Some tanks find fun to take their time and don't care if buffs of they party are finishing or others prefer to go fast.

Some DPS just want to play how they want because it's a game and is suppose to be fun, and they mind doing a 50-70% less damage than other DPS or will keep attaking one target even if the tank has 15 mobs. They just want to use the skills they find pretty.

And some healers just want to heal in a calm way, don't bother them with DPS or big pulls, they don't enjoy it.



But some people do.

And those groups usually suffer when they are mixed. So don't do it.


Just add an option "Speedrun roulette" or "Slow roulette" and everyone will be happier.

Right now, it's just jungle. To go to the roulette, and you have to deal with whatever you find.

Now sometimes I just drop inmediatly from the dungeon if the group is very bad finds fun thinks that I don't find fun.

[Malevicton]

I never said one didn't have practice (though with DRK, it's only 21 levels of practice, starting off at 30 -- unless the player goes through fates and leves to learn how to play from lowest possible synch). But while levelling, you're not always synched down, you're still adjusting to whatever new skill(s) you might have gotten recently, and you're more than likely not geared as well as those who are synched. And not everyone has tank as their main role, but want to level them up anyway for one reason or other. In other words, not everyone playing a tank is entirely comfortable with the role itself -- or they're used to another type of tank, and they do play very differently. And everyone has good and bad days on top of that.

You don't need to be any of those things to be able to pull more than 1 group.

No, it doesn't. Not automatically. But depending on what criteria you place on the term 'bad' (i.e. how soon you resort to shrugging and going 'bad player') it might.

I'm resorting to it because people keep trying to find some justification to only ever do small pulls as a player, and there's only one. Being bad.

Other people pulling is annoying, but not more than that. You don't always have to pull everything. But if 1 group is your cap then tanking is probably not for you.

[Noxifer]

I'm resorting to it because people keep trying to find some justification to only ever do small pulls as a player, and there's only one. Being bad.

Other people pulling is annoying, but not more than that. You don't always have to pull everything. But if 1 group is your cap then tanking is probably not for you.

....You didn't really read what I said, did you? ^^; I never said I only ever do small pulls (or that people do in general), just that sometimes there is justification for it. And that some times, depending on the circumstances, I restrict myself to smaller pulls. Normally, I take two to three groups at a time, depending on the dungeon. Sometimes I do more than that, if I'm with a healer I trust and the group composition is especially good for AoE, or if I know the dungeon like the back of my hand. *certainly not looking at Brayflox HM or WP Normal*

But like I (and several others) have said, it's a matter of communication, not presuming. And yes, that goes both ways. If I'm not feeling too good one day and still go to tank (usually I fall back on healer on those days, actually), I'll usually try to say something about it at the start of the dungeon. The few times one of my FC mates tanks (being DPS at heart) and ends up in a new place, she'll comment that it's her first time tanking it, and "please go easy on me". So I'm not trying to claim that the tank has no responsibility to communicate. But when a tank has asked others not to pull, and they either throw out a small dictionary of swears or ignore it entirely, it's in my eyes justified to go, "Fine. You pull it, you tank it." Just as it's justified for the rest of the team to either votekick and get a new tank or continue on and pull what mobs they like as long as they don't expect the tank to take the mobs off them.
(And in the other direction, if the tank goes afk and the rest of the team go ahead and kill some trash while waiting, the tank has no right to throw a tantrum regarding it; they pulled it and they did tank it.)

[Miste]

I'm resorting to it because people keep trying to find some justification to only ever do small pulls as a player, and there's only one. Being bad.

Other people pulling is annoying, but not more than that. You don't always have to pull everything. But if 1 group is your cap then tanking is probably not for you.

A tank that loses hate on mobs on every pull is bad.
A tank that uses no cool downs is bad.
A tank that enters Sohm Al and pulls all the way to the boss and dies then blames the healer is bad. (Yeah, I've seen this happen...)

A tank that only pulls one set of mobs but uses cool downs and keeps hate is not bad.

Your definition is wrong and kinda rude tbh; and this is coming from a tank that usually multi-pulls and especially if people ask for more.

Considering your posts in here it isn't likely you'll change your mind but you are calling people bad for playing at the pace they have fun with. It isn't like they aren't doing their job; they just don't play at the same pace as you. That's not bad, you just don't share that pace (Which is totally fine, to each their own). So you either have to deal with it if you come across a conflict, leave the party, or see what the other party members think and try to come to a compromise. The rudeness isn't needed.

DF is open for everyone so there is going to be play style clashes with speed/pace, and it won't ever go away unless SE makes some kinda split system. So just gotta deal with it if it happens and if the play styles just don't match where you gotta start raging at each other then there is always vote abandon or someone could just leave if they don't agree.

[Elvin]

There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.


And each one of us decide what is bad for each one of us.


To me, tank responsability is keep agro plus keep the better possible pace in the dungeon. If he can pull 10 mobs and pull them one by one making the run less efficienty, he is probably bad.

[MistakeNot]

To me, tank responsability is keep agro plus keep the better possible pace in the dungeon. If he can pull 10 mobs and pull them one by one making the run less efficienty, he is probably bad.

The tank's job is twofold: Keeping aggro, and staying alive. A tank that manages that is doing his job. Making the run as fast as possible is not part of the job.

I would actually like to commit heresy and claim that a tank that makes small pulls is a GOOD tank: He is making each fight as easy and managable as possible - thereby reducing risk to a minimum. Doing such is simply good tactics.

Pulling large groups and/or multiple groups at once is something one can only do when the party is significantly more powerful than is actually needed for the dungeon. Unless one is sure that is the case, the smart thing to do is to play it safe. Even then the only good reason for making large pulls is if the party has plenty of AOE damage - since it is only then that pulling a large group makes killing the mobs noticably faster than pulling them piecemeal.

[Krylo]

You don't need to be any of those things to be able to pull more than 1 group.

You do if the healer isn't any good, at least until you get the really good self-heals (and even then, really), and in DF the healer isn't always good. It's pretty rare, really.

The tank's job is twofold: Keeping aggro, and staying alive.

That's their minimum. A tank that does that and nothing else is about as good as a DPS who does about 60% of their possible DPS, or a healer who stands around idling for half of every fight because the tank is single pulling and no healing is necessary.

Not necessarily terrible, but definitely not 'good' either.

[Odett]

That's their minimum. A tank that does that and nothing else is about as good as a DPS who does about 60% of their possible DPS, or a healer who stands around idling for half of every fight because the tank is single pulling and no healing is necessary.

Not necessarily terrible, but definitely not 'good' either.

I'd call a tank like that terrible. Unless you're undergeared, agro is extremely easy to maintain. If I pulled some mobs, Infuriated, Steel Cycloned, Overpower untl 0 TP, or Flashed or Unleashed until 0 MP and went AFK, I'd call myself a terrible tank. A tank's skill, to me at least, is best determined by how they can use their cooldowns in the most effective manner, making their healer's job as easy as they can. If I die to anything, and I do not have a cooldown up, or the appropriate cooldown up, I will take full responsibility for the death. A tank who doesn't use CD's is a bad tank in my book; you have more than 6 of them, how can not force yourself to click/press at least one?

At OT:
"Playing for fun" is entirely subjective, and to many players, they have the most fun when they clear content in the most effective manner. A lot of people enjoy the game by "being super fast with everything", as you put it, so it's not a bad idea to see things from their perspective as well. Other people pulling for you isn't cool, and your idea of fun shouldn't hinder your group, just like their idea of fun shouldn't detract from your playing experience. At the same time, if, for example, you have two caster DPS in your group and both of them, plus the healer, keep insisting on you pulling more, then it's nice to do what's best for the group. Being a tank neither makes you the leader of the group, or give you the right to hold your party members hostage (I'm not saying you do neither of these, but many players seem to think so. There are waaay too many diva tanks in this game). Being a tank does not make you the martyr of the group either, and if it seems like a chore, and you're not having fun, I suggest perhaps looking at another role.