So Specialist Recipees are in the game.

[Ranzan]

snip

That's the thing. Why target the omnicrafters while the biggest non participants are the DoW/M? Sorry I fail to see how people want to pick at omni crafter not participating in the economy (fat lie) but the battle classes get a pass. They are not buying nothing and being self sufficient with their food and pots. But nobody bats an eye at them. If people really cared about the economy they should have everybody buying from it not what we have now. Crafters buying from crafters and crafter buying from gatherers.

[Gyson]

And while I don't know what they're going to do for long term plans, *neither do you.* However, what information we have right now suggests at least a little bit that the specialist recipes are not going to be major ones. We won't know whether they will be, most likely, until 3.2. As of right now, it looks like we're going to see cosmetic items and the like, so almost nothing is going to change for you.

The sky is not falling.

You have a serious case of speculation going on there, but for the sake of argument let's all assume it's going to be just "cosmetic items and the like". And? What is the reassuring point you're attempting to make here? Because when it comes to high-end crafting, what really is there that people desire other than "cosmetic items and the like"? When's the last time you caught yourself saying "I really need that end-game crafting item for non-cosmetic and the like purposes?". It doesn't happen very often.

Even if it was only specialist housing furniture - why is it so hard to understand that some of us took crafting and put all that effort into it specifically because we want to make things for ourselves. I want to see my name on whatever the item is, whether it is a piece of armor I'm going to wear, or a minion I'm about to add to my collection, or a chandelier to hang in a house.. whatever the object is, the whole point was to be self sufficient. That is why some of us craft, because we like making our own things.

So, please, stop saying the "sky is not falling" when you have no idea what drives a given player to invest all that time, gil, and energy into leveling up crafting for the past year or more under a concept that is now suddenly adopting a very different philosophy. Such an ignorant comment to make.

[Alahra]

That's the thing. Why target the omnicrafters while the biggest non participants are the DoW/M?

They're making adjustments to the rest of crafting to encourage more participation from DoW/DoM in the exact same patch (and making crafted gear far more powerful in 3.2). They're addressing both things. But this topic was about the specialist recipes.

When's the last time you caught yourself saying "I really need that end-game crafting item for non-cosmetic and the like purposes?". It doesn't happen very often.

-snip-

So, please, stop saying the "sky is not falling" when you have no idea what drives a given player to invest all that time, gil, and energy into leveling up crafting for the past year or more under a concept that is now suddenly adopting a very different philosophy.

Players wanted gear for non-cosmetic purposes all through ARR. It's only been in 3.0, due to problems with material availability and the viability of the available items for use in content, that crafting was relegated to cosmetic stuff.

And I honestly *do* have an idea, because I was a serious crafter throughout ARR. I've backed off of it some in HW because of the problems with recipe usefulness, but intend to focus more on it again in 3.1 after the incoming changes.

My point is only that it's too early to tell how this is going to change things. We're not getting any new combat-oriented recipes in 3.1 (or if we are, they've been very quiet about it), which suggests most, if not all, of the new recipes will be related to glamour and housing, which will include the Specialist recipes. To say that it's a "very different philosophy" is a bit knee-jerk, as there have already been periods during the early stages of new patches when you had to specialize, at least for a little while, on a couple crafts as you worked to acquire new Master books and the like. It's certainly a change to make some items permanently only available to specialists, but it's not a gigantic shift, unless a large majority of recipes suddenly become Specialist only. But we don't know that that's going to be the case yet.

They're well aware that the most dedicated omnicrafters have been hard at work getting i170 sets for all of their DoH classes, and I highly doubt they're going to completely invalidate that effort.

[Gyson]

My point is only that it's too early to tell how this is going to change things.

On the contrary, we've had two years now to see how crafting has gotten along without specialist recipes, and it's been doing just fine. And it could keep going on as it has been for another two years and nobody would bat an eye, much less be arguing about this nonsense on the forums. Whatever *real* issues crafting has, adding specialist recipes into the mix isn't going to fix them.

Reducing the amount of players that can create specific items, lowering potential competition on the market between crafters as a result of that, upsetting players who invested time into crafting for the purpose of being self-sufficient, forcing yet another form of "social interaction" on a community that can barely stand each other on the best of days and through an activity that was originally advertised as a solo affair.. you don't have to be a psychic to anticipate how this plays out.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

On the contrary, we've had two years now to see how crafting has gotten along without specialist recipes, and it's been doing just fine. And it could keep going on as it has been for another two years and nobody would bat an eye, much less be arguing about this nonsense on the forums. Whatever *real* issues crafting has, adding specialist recipes into the mix isn't going to fix them.

Reducing the amount of players that can create specific items, lowering potential competition on the market between crafters as a result of that, upsetting players who invested time into crafting for the purpose of being self-sufficient, forcing yet another form of "social interaction" on a community that can barely stand each other on the best of days and through an activity that was originally advertised as a solo affair.. you don't have to be a psychic to anticipate how this plays out.

M8 U WOT?!

Crafting has been doing anything but fine.

Besides any judgement on Specialist needs to wait for what will be exactly behind the Specialist recipees. Till now our only image is a housing item, if Specialist recipees are that, glamour and vanity items, this will be the best thing to happen to crafting since 2.0

Now, if whats behind specialists are the high end gear for either crafters or DoW/DoM... There we will have, not a problem, but a complete change of economical paradigm, which, at this point after seeing crafting and economy going down the drain save a few people per server, i think, any alternative could be better.

[Gyson]

M8 U WOT?!

Crafting has been doing anything but fine.

You probably should have bolded the caveat that went with that statement as well. The part where I said "Whatever *real* issues crafting has, adding specialist recipes into the mix isn't going to fix them."

Till now our only image is a housing item, if Specialist recipees are that, glamour and vanity items, this will be the best thing to happen to crafting since 2.0

Why, because fewer people will be able to craft them, cutting down on the supply available? Because there will be less crafters to compete against when pricing said items on the marketboard? Because the players who made the effort to level all crafts under the promise of being be self-sufficient will now instead be blocked from crafting these items without wasting a serious amount of scrips on soulstone swapping?

I think we may have different opinions on "the best thing to happen to crafting since 2.0". Perhaps you meant to type "worst".

[Alahra]

I think we may have different opinions on "the best thing to happen to crafting since 2.0". Perhaps you meant to type "worst".

It comes down to a matter of perspective. You are obviously and understandably concerned that specialist recipes will make the effort you've put into omnicrafting less meaningful. Personally, I took a gamble and assumed we'd hit a point where they were pushing Specialization more heavily, so I wanted to be "ready," (so I've only been working on gearing my three specializations) but I can completely understand your concern.

But I'm also trying to look at the change in a broader perspective--as with any change, the developers are intending for it to have some sort of effect on the game, and I think they're trying to encourage us to work together more. Personally, I think that more economic interaction between crafters will have some positive effects on the economy, so long as the recipes themselves aren't highly desirable things. Combat gear and the like probably shouldn't be given Specialization status, or they'll never really be able to balance the various Specializations in terms of worthwhile recipes. We'll have to wait and see if they plan to do anything of that sort.

Edit to add since I'm at the post cap: I never said that crafters don't collaborate, only that the developers seem to want to encourage *more* of that. It would be so wonderful if you would stop misconstruing people's posts.

[Gyson]

..as with any change, the developers are intending for it to have some sort of effect on the game, and I think they're trying to encourage us to work together more. Personally, I think that more economic interaction between crafters will have some positive effects on the economy, so long as the recipes themselves aren't highly desirable things.

I'm really not sure why people keep pushing this idea that crafters aren't purchasing items from other crafters on the marketboard. One only has to look at the sale history (available on any marketboard) of crafting tools, crafting attire, and crafted components to see that crafters are indeed purchasing items made by other crafters. These items are always moving, all the time. Specialist recipe items are just going to be "one more thing" that crafters purchase off the marketboard, out of the plethora of items they're already buying from there.

Nor are specialist recipes going to add some never-before-seen collaboration between crafters. The game already has that with FC workshops. It had it before FC workshops. I collaborate with other crafters in my guild every time we're trying to help an undergeared guild member get suited up in the latest and greatest equipment. No specialist recipes were required to make that collaboration happen.

The only impact specialist recipes will have on the market is reducing the amount of crafters a specialist has to compete against when selling their specialist recipe items. So, expect them to be abnormally expensive, as well as in short supply. This is me trying to contain my excitement over that effect on the market economy: :|

[Gardes]

That's the thing. Why target the omnicrafters while the biggest non participants are the DoW/M? Sorry I fail to see how people want to pick at omni crafter not participating in the economy (fat lie) but the battle classes get a pass. They are not buying nothing and being self sufficient with their food and pots. But nobody bats an eye at them. If people really cared about the economy they should have everybody buying from it not what we have now. Crafters buying from crafters and crafter buying from gatherers.

Eh. They're non-participants because SE made it that way. They made it that way because they think that was the better way to entice the casual playing crowd. The very vocal crowd in these forums probably helped cement that.

[Felis]

That's the thing. Why target the omnicrafters while the biggest non participants are the DoW/M?

That get fixed with 3.2