How do these changes fix the issues with Paladin?

[Freyyy]

I'm not willing to be as easily pleased as some people. This isn't good enough to settle down and forget Paladins being mocked since 2.1 in increasing frequency meanwhile the company doesn't give a shit to fix things for all jobs yet has the time to damned near perfect 3-4 of them. It's inexcusable and "slightly better" isn't slightly better to me. I'll admit that some of my statements are slightly erroneous but just saying 'hey it's slightly less than dog shit now' isn't something that should even be uttered from people's mouths.

I'm not saying that Paladins should be pleased with that. I'm just saying that the Shield Swipe change is a buff, that's all. Yeah they need more, a lot more, but it's not because they need more that this change is negative. It's still an increase in performance at some degree. Actually I think that tank changes are gonna come in 3.2. Yoshi stated in the last interview that he wants to alleviate the differences between tanks in terms of weaknesses and strengths in order to prevent one from being almost excluded from raid content like PLD is right now or like WAR was in 2.0. We also know that they want to change the encounter design, they'll also change the damage calculation for tanks, and the accessories are gonna be reworked (they said that the new raid and token accessories from 3.2 will be much more powerful than now). The meta might change a lot in 3.2, they can't do anything to change the meta in 3.1 because it doesn't bring a new raid tier, it just adds more side content to the already established 3.0 meta.

I don't know where you saw that PLD is being mocked since 2.1... Until 2.55 it was the most popular MT and everyone loved it. PLD's fall started with 3.0 and will hopefully for all PLD mains end in 3.2 with the release of the next raid tier.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Stuff.

I've already seen 2 FCs run Double Warrior through A4S and they kill it much faster than we do with DRK/WAR. So no, you're wrong. Like, very wrong. Do you expect MT Warriors to sit in Defiance all day or something? People who clear the content don't do this. On top of that, with Double Warrior you take a Monk for Dragon Kick, and most of the time Monks have higher DPS than a Ninja, or a Dragoon anyways. Yes, this is including Disembowel and Battle Litany.

Source:
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#boss=21
http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#boss=20

^The fights where DPS is actually a concern. Please get out with anecdotal logic.

[SwordCoheir]

Truth be told, I think the LB change was meant to help out DPS options more than tanks, but despite the prolonged suffering PLD's and possibly DRK's will have to endure it might make SE see the see how lopsided WAR is favored now that the LB limitation is gone.

[Seku]

With the changes to Limit Break being role-based, and not job-based, there is now zero argument against running a 2-Warrior setup. Anything else is just worse.

Except they didn't say anything about removing the previous penalty you get if you take two or more members of the same job/class and instead looks to be a means to prevent from taking 3 healers, 3 tanks, 3 physical dps or 3 ranged. Also you don't que for Savage via duty finder, maybe that'll change.

If anything seems that new primal fights such as the new Thordan battle is going to be effected by these changes assuming it doesn't go right to DF with the option to que for it solo.

[Kyne_Lyons]

No kidding you don't queue for Savage via the duty finder, is that what you think this is about? People are cagey about it because, as you said, it wasn't explicitly stated. It also forces every group to run 2-melee, which is superior anyways, but seems like a strange design decision. The dev's headspace is really hard to get into right now.

[Seku]

No kidding you don't queue for Savage via the duty finder, is that what you think this is about? People are cagey about it because, as you said, it wasn't explicitly stated. It also forces every group to run 2-melee, which is superior anyways, but seems like a strange design decision. The dev's headspace is really hard to get into right now.

More along the lines that double war may not be a thing, at least for early progression, since you may still be killing the rate of your LB gauge rising due to assumptions instead of facts of the LB bar.

Hard to get into right now as it seems to have been a waste of development time they could have used for something else. :/

[Freyyy]

snip

Yeah you selected parses about the best MNKs, and I can tell you that the DRKs in these groups are pretty low. Look at what really good DRKs are doing http://www.fflogs.com/rankings/7#bos...pec=DarkKnight almost every A3S parses with real DRKs have the WAR being behind the DRK. You also don't seem to be taking into account the fact that in these parses, the WAR is OTing, thus doesn't need to activate his tanking stance as much as the DRK.

MNK may be the highest DPS right now but DRG and NIN both increase the DPS of everyone else in the party (DRG with Battle Litany + bringing Disembowel for the BRD/MCH, NIN with fucking Trick Attack which is awesomely awesome), and MNK utility is erased by the DRK which IS the highest MT DPS PERIOD. I hell know that a WAR isn't staying in Defiance while tanking, as much as a DRK isn't standing in Grit either. And Gritless DRK > Deliverance WAR in physical fights, that's also a known fact. The only fight where DRK isn't that high in MT DPS is A4S because there is nothing to parry except the adds. I can't believe there is still someone believing that WAR is above DRK while MTing.

[Kyne_Lyons]

You're ignoring all data that doesn't agree with you and being selective/ignoring the facts, maybe because you only know how your group performs? I think we're done here.

[Freyyy]

You're ignoring all data that doesn't agree with you and being selective/ignoring the facts, maybe because you only know how your group performs? I think we're done here.

Yeah that's why I sent you multiple FFlogs parses with numbers that clearly shows DRK is the best MT DPS. The one who is ignoring facts that doesn't agree with him between us is you. I'm also not the only one stating that. It's a well known fact.

[Kyne_Lyons]

My opinions are facts, even though people who can actually beat the content generally disagree.

Yeah, okay.