How do these changes fix the issues with Paladin?

[Renault]

For thost have not read:

Shield Swipe: Is now an ability and does not trigger global cooldown.
Recast time has been adjusted to 15 seconds.
Potency has been reduced from 210 to 150.

Goring Blade: TP cost has been reduced from 60 to 50.

Shield Swipe: TP cost has been reduced from 150 to 120.

Seriously, SE?! Please, for the love of this game, for the love of all Paladins, LISTEN!

This does NOT fix the problems with Paladin. Reducing the TP cost of literally one skill? How will they not run out of TP? They'll have maybe a small handful of extra globals throughout the fight, but does that really fix the issue?

Paladins do not need a DPS increase, they needed a LOT of work in other departments. TP is one of them, the nature of their stun another. Having a stun that costs massive amounts of TP, breaks combo, AND uses up a GCD? You have a joke of an ability right there. This wasn't that much of an issue in 2.x, but looking at fight design in Alexander Savage, you have SEVERAL mechanics that need to be stunned, and this makes it so that groups bringing a Paladin are severely handicapped.

Also, TP adjustments to only goring blade? I may eat my words when the patch goes live, but this just does not seem like enough. Emnity is another huge issue, as Paladin is not able to hold a candle to the monstrous emnity gains of Dark Knights and Warriors. Shield Swipe changes might help with that, but the gap between Paladin and the rest is just laughable.

I understand you don't want to go overboard with changes, SE, but the snails pace that you're moving at with these class changes is, believe it or not, causing some people to hang up their sword and shield, and in some cases, has caused players to quit the game entirely. e tha

[Mature]

Complains incoming *grabs popcorn*

[AsahinaMyLove]

I actually NEVER ever had problems with Paladin TP Lol XD

Im really wondering why they did that unnecessary change o__o;

[Avidria]

I actually NEVER ever had problems with Paladin TP Lol XD

Im really wondering why they did that unnecessary change o__o;

I'm not 60 yet but while leveling, if a fight doesn't end quickly...I'm out. Spent half the Darkscale fate sitting at 0-40 tp yesterday. :/

I also see paladins run out in a3 or a4 sometimes. I've had to toss up Army's Paean more than once for a paladin.

[Kemas]

The thought (I'm sure) is that we'll be using Shield Swipe on recast finally- and due to the off gcd enmity is supplies we'll be able to use Royal Authority more often. Added tp reductions are always welcome. Don't forget we're also going to be seeing a shift toward physical damage in the coming patches as well. Yes, these changes are slightly underwhelming (and still nothing changed in regards to clemency and divine veil which is depressing) but they're nothing to scoff at either. I'm just excited shield swipe is going to be usable again and PLD rotations will feel even slightly more "active" with another ogcd to trigger.

[Renault]

Snip

While I do agree nothing has to be done to their defenses to cater towards the more magic-based Alexander Savage, I don't think future fight design will fix the innate issues with the class itself. I also think this change alleviates some of the emnity strain on Paladins, but it certainly does not bring them up to DRK/WAR levels. Not even close.

First, this shield swipe change is hilarious. 15 sec cooldown? Hell, as a warrior I have an OGCD ability called brutal swing. It's only 20 seconds on cooldown, does just as much damage (More in deliverance) AND it stuns...for NO tp!

That's more of a gripe though, as the true issues lie in Paladin's horrid TP management (which is none, they just run out) and the super-bad GCD 120 TP stun does not help. I think Shield Bash should have been adjusted more, to 0 TP. The fact that it takes up a GCD *AND* interrupts combo is enough.

[KingOfAbyss]

While I do agree nothing has to be done to their defenses to cater towards the more magic-based Alexander Savage, I don't think future fight design will fix the innate issues with the class itself. I also think this change alleviates some of the emnity strain on Paladins, but it certainly does not bring them up to DRK/WAR levels. Not even close.

First, this shield swipe change is hilarious. 15 sec cooldown? Hell, as a warrior I have an OGCD ability called brutal swing. It's only 20 seconds on cooldown, does just as much damage (More in deliverance) AND it stuns...for NO tp!

That's more of a gripe though, as the true issues lie in Paladin's horrid TP management (which is none, they just run out) and the super-bad GCD 120 TP stun does not help. I think Shield Bash should have been adjusted more, to 0 TP. The fact that it takes up a GCD *AND* interrupts combo is enough.

Might be that lvl 66 skills (or 65 if they skip the skills every 2 lvls for 4.0) might just be a form of DRG's Invigorate, maybe more potent?.

What if they make it so like a Benediction, our TP bar would be back to 100% ?

You never know what they keep as trump cards..

[Ashkendor]

This does NOT fix the problems with Paladin. Reducing the TP cost of literally one skill? How will they not run out of TP? They'll have maybe a small handful of extra globals throughout the fight, but does that really fix the issue?

They also reduced the TP on Shield Bash; now chain stunning isn't quite as draining.

Paladins do not need a DPS increase, they needed a LOT of work in other departments. TP is one of them, the nature of their stun another. Having a stun that costs massive amounts of TP, breaks combo, AND uses up a GCD? You have a joke of an ability right there. This wasn't that much of an issue in 2.x, but looking at fight design in Alexander Savage, you have SEVERAL mechanics that need to be stunned, and this makes it so that groups bringing a Paladin are severely handicapped.

Uh. Actually. A lot of us would really like that DPS increase to make us actually competitive with WAR and DRK in a raiding environment. Right now there's just no real reason to take a PLD, and plenty of reasons to take WAR/DRK instead. As far as the stun goes, a PLD is the most reliable class to stun as long as you do it right. Our stun is on the GCD, but it also has zero cooldown aside from that. Do you remember chain-stunning adds in Leviathan EX when that was a thing? It was great in T5 as well. WAR and DRK both have a 20 second cooldown on their stun abilities (DRK's can reset the cd but it's RNG based and can't be counted on).

I actually NEVER ever had problems with Paladin TP Lol XD

Im really wondering why they did that unnecessary change o__o;

Based on what you've said about your playstyle in other threads:

I guess people like you would call me "bad DPS" because when I play as Monk or Mechanic (both ilvl186) I dont ever use those ridicoules small 5% atk "boost" skills. (I call them: blank skills)
...or those annoying positional atks on monk/drg/nin <,< (why we have that anyway...?)

I also dont have that dragoon aura up for the whole time o_O that aura dont boost anything on stats, and those 4th cambo atks are pretty much weak! Only usefull for those 2 Jump atks. ...wich have same CD as the dragoon aura.

minuet/gauss is only for AoE usefull - very weak against 1 target! Its sad people using that skill totally wrong for 1 target =.=


With that "my own gameplay" I still kick asses around. :P
Never had complains in my over 2100 runs so far since release 2013!

you wouldn't have a problem with PLD TP. It really only happens if you're trying to play the class to its full potential.

[Renault]

They also reduced the TP on Shield Bash; now chain stunning isn't quite as draining.


Uh. Actually. A lot of us would really like that DPS increase to make us actually competitive with WAR and DRK in a raiding environment. Right now there's just no real reason to take a PLD, and plenty of reasons to take WAR/DRK instead. As far as the stun goes, a PLD is the most reliable class to stun as long as you do it right. Our stun is on the GCD, but it also has zero cooldown aside from that. Do you remember chain-stunning adds in Leviathan EX when that was a thing? It was great in T5 as well. WAR and DRK both have a 20 second cooldown on their stun abilities (DRK's can reset the cd but it's RNG based and can't be counted on).

Can't really agree with you here, but I do see where you're coming from.

120 TP, even though it is "spammable" is massive. Also, it being on the GCD means it is a massive dps loss. Chain stuns are not needed in a coordinated group, as multiple classes have OGCD 'free' stuns that are better suited.


As for the dps, my group is close to the clear on A4S and we run Paladin. Our Paladin does great dps, only about 100 lower than a DRK would (but he's still better than most DRK's). That is a large gap if you're doing progression, but I think SE is learning about their horrid dps checks. We don't even have him stun at all in A3S or A4S. It's a waste of TP, and will still be a waste even with this "buff".

[Belhi]

This is a translated quote from an interview with Yoshida so Im not 100% sure on the accuracy.

Yoshida: We'll be making effort to eliminate that as much as possible. Within the content, there are strong and weak points to each job. For example, in the second area of savage, a paladin main tank should have higher stability than a dark knight. Depending on the player and their skill level, each party will see different results, but we'd like to reduce the difference. We can't just make adjustments to jobs based on whether they are strong or weak in particular content as that would break the jobs, so we'll work to eliminate disadvantages to certain jobs as much as possible in the content. That doesn't mean we won't be making any adjustments to jobs in the future, but we'd like to also hear feedback after playing through the different content in patch 3.1.

Source: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/126902-Famitsu-Interview-Translation-Yoshida-on-Patch-3.1-and-Beyond?p=6560729#post6560729

In short, the problem is the content doesn't cater well to PLD's strengths and as such simply buffing PLD would likely make them overpowered in future content where PLD's strengths become more prominent in mechanics. Its an encounter design issue rather than a Job balance issue.