JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[Kallera]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

Since you have trouble reading, let me digest that post for you.

tl:dr They are not entitled to our time.

No one is entitled to do anything, but, in the abscence of SE's development of the game, if your want to improve the number of players interesred in raiding, which means more people to select from, you can't just sit on your hands and wait for it to poof into being.

Unlike in 2.0, people have options now. If endgame raiding is seen as, well, a head bangingly bad time with the party as well as the mobs, many won't do it patch after patch.

[Whiteroom]

All I see in this thread is two factions pointing fingers at each other and yelling "IT'S NOT OUR FAULT! THEY'RE THE BAD ONES!"
"Elitists" vs. casuals all over again.

Tbh, I see a lot more than that. You can call it elitist vs casual if that makes it easier to write off. To often in our community, simply being good is enough to be labelled as Elitist, while Casual is used as an excuse and defense for preforming well below standard. You don't have to be a hardcore elitist to learn your role basics.

What I see in our community and here, is people ignoring the part where people from the Japan servers saying people show up more prepared for a fight, doing their research, and knowing their roll. You have people who are saying the average dps they see over there is 800-1000, and rarely a much poorer player, where here it's very common to see people doing 200-300.

The community, imho, would be in a much more positive and helpful place if there wasn't so many who couldn't be bothered to preform at even a mediocre standard. People need to help themselves help the team. Wanting people to learn the basics of their role and watch a video by level 60 is far from elitist.

Even in this thread. Someone who claims to be looking for ways to improve the community flat out wrote the comming prepared off if you had less time. They wrote off a key aspect of smooth runs.

[Starbirth]

it'll never happen in a culture of instant gratification.

From my experience it isn't so much about instant gratification; it's about wasting time. People see it as a waste of time if there is nothing in it for them so this makes learning old content that is still level relevant a massive chore.

For learning a class most people expect you to have it down by max level, yet so many don't and it could be because they're stubborn but I also see many of the experienced players talk down to them when they are willing to learn. There is also a lack of useful resources on the internet when it comes to ff14. We as a community need the experienced players to write more guides instead of people posting confusing 20-40 minute videos.

The JP caller is right though and players helping players would fix many woes within the US community. Our community is capable of doing so much more; it's also one of the better gaming communities in the US to!

[Azazua_azura]

There are actually not too many differences in jp amd NA communities, its more a responce of how we play mmo based on the MMO we have played before.

Japan does not have a ton of mmo, yoshida touched base on this during 1.0 when he took over, so alot of the devs didn't understand the "modern" mmo scene.

From my experience in ff11 and ff14 with the jp community, they have just as meny bad players as we do, just as meny trolls as we do. They just don't make excuses for them and are quick to kick them out. Though at times you do run across the troll groups and elitist.

Its also a misconception jp use pf for practice and df for farm. I've seen both amoung the playerbase on tonberry. And the jp datacenter I'm on has a 3 wipe rule, if the group wipes 3 times its vote abandon, no fights no calling out players just vote abandon.

Now with what I stated above, japanese players don't have a ton of mmo at their finger tips, a large portion of jp play on ps3/ps4 though some do play on pc and have had some experience on WoW or other mmo. Alot of Japanese mmo are also very group centric ff11 being a big 1.

Where our big mmo was WoW which was more solo centric, players over in NA are not used to dealing with groups till endgame and mostly played endgame with RL friend (due to how popular WoW was) And alot of my experience with WoW, players considered "pugs" to be bad due to you was playing with random players and couldn't trust them and it was a "waste of time".

So in this the jp community and NA community clash a bit and alot of reason why JP players dislike NA players.

I think what NA plauers need is to be more open minded and mindful of the genre that MMO are, which is massive multiplayer. Instead of playing the game for ourselves, be more mindful of the people we group with.

There is a right and wrong way to handle game situation and from my personal expeience NA players handle thing the wrong way 9 times outa 10.

Such as thinking of yourself and personsal time and getting upset when someone "wastes" it because you waste their time being upset. Remember its about the group not yourself.

Another thing is give people room to breath and learn, don't force advice down their throats due to the "waste time". People learn at different paces and in different ways, some learn best by researching, some learn best by experimenting on their own, some do best by asking for tips.

If a player or a run isn't going the way you like you can opt to leave gracefully and do something else for 30min.
This goes foing doing content, or learning jobs, remember it is a game.

The wrong way to go about it is force feeding advice, or calling people lazy for not researching stuff before hand. I personally have ADD and Aspergers, I have tried to read guides before or watch videos and I personally don't get much info or help from them. I've also noticed alot of guides and videos are outdated due to content aging and having different mindsets or such stuff due to outgearing.


But as i stated before there as meny good and bad players trolls and elitist in both jp and NA communities its just how each group handles them is different.

[Odett]

Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

wants help, yet calls people tryhards

[Irie]

Stuff

My point was that as long as ppl keep blaming the others and not trying to reflect on their own mistakes / behaviour nothing's gonna change. We can go on about how this is a cultural thing, how the commnunity / mindset / you name it is different, but in the end for me it boils down to pretending as if it's someone elses fault or finding some other excuse.

[zosia]

No one is entitled to do anything, but, in the abscence of SE's development of the game, if your want to improve the number of players interesred in raiding, which means more people to select from, you can't just sit on your hands and wait for it to poof into being.Unlike in 2.0, people have options now. If endgame raiding is seen as, well, a head bangingly bad time with the party as well as the mobs, many won't do it patch after patch.

That is why it's not advantageous to work on building an endgame community anymore.

SE crashed the endgame community of ARR into a brick wall with 3.0. It's literally in shambles right now. We have received little to no sympathy from the non-raiding community for these terrible design choices. So, now that a lot of our friends have quit or transferred servers, it's up to us to fix what SE broke? Nah, no thanks. I already have enough irl stuff to stress about, the plight of some stranger who needs a Bis EX clear is the last thing I am thinking about when I go to log in.

[BunnyChain]

Glad I'm not the only one who finds the notion of a 'NA community' fairly amusing, or any community outside of JP for that matter.

[ExiaQuanta]

Trying to teach a person in Duty Finder does more harm than good now and days. The amount of "grateful" people are a small group. Just because this forum maybe "Grateful" or the "Im willing" does not mean its the community.
Chances are, if you try to tell a person in DF Expert how to play a class now and days, 70% you are gonna be ignored, told to shut up, or get into an argument of why they're playstyle is better (though it could worst) by using some weird credentials. Like "I have 3 classes at 60 I know what I'm doing" or "I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I HAVE OVER 100 CONFIRMED KILLS AND 100 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS SAID CLASS AND I KNOW IM PLAYING CORRECTLY".

I once joined a in-progress Tam-Tara normal mode as tank, was told the 1st tank could not hold aggro. After a few pulls, I realize that its also not just the 1st tanks fault but also the fault of the healer for ONLY using medica and medica only. Healer used Medica right after I did Shield Lob, I took 50 dmg, healer did Medica. At the end, I told the person they shouldn't, i was given the "WELL IN WOW THIS IS HOW I PLAYED"........ya....so they "unjustly" kicked their first tank

So what do you do? You are already annoyed at the person, so save yourself MORE trouble, headaches, and stress by not saying anything. IMO if we really wanted the NA community to start looking better (looking forward), target freshly new players that are at lv10-26ish (by 26 most class has atleast 3 essential skills).

[Ashkendor]

Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

If you go into learning parties with an attitude like that, I don't think many people would be inclined to help you. :/