JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

[Whiteroom]

I gotta say, the last time I tried to say its the community's job to help teach people how to play, I got told off.

Which says something about our players.

Because it is far from their job.

Does it benefit the community? Yes.

Is it their responsibility? No.

Is it the individual players responsibility to try to improve themselves? No, but much more so than the responsibility of the rest of the community.

The community, at least a good portion seems to have an "everyone must carry me!" attitude.

The bulk of the responsibility for a persons play, comes from that person.

But to your point, who do you think puts out all of those videos and guides that it's no ones responsibility to watch. Members of the "Community" is who.

It is extremely insulting, selfish, entitled and all kinds of words like that to say "You know something I don't, it's your job to help me!", when you should be saying "I don't know this, please teach me." Maybe that is part of the difference in communities?

[Nestama]

snip.

It depends on what you mean by "it's the communities job" (I think most video guides are a hobby of the author. It's not their responsibility to release a guide, after all). It's technically the newbies job to look at their tool tips, brainstorm their rotation (Training Dummies) and if one is available, look up a video/written guide. If they expect a random player to come along and teach/tell them what to do, well no (as that usually means the group may wipe or take a little longer than usual on a fight because the newbie either didn't pick up on the mechanics during the fight OR have yet to figure out their rotation).

When I was levelling BLM from 50-60, I slowly adjusted to my new rotation. This was the same case for BRD, DRG and MNK. I even levelled my WHM to 60 (and I don't main healer) and picked up on the most efficient way to heal and DPS (all I did was read the tool tips and used my party as guinea pigs... mostly the tank. We never wiped unless the tank and DPS were hit by the everythings).

There's also some players who will refuse any help whatsoever and stick with a "I play how I want" attitude, which can make a dungeon last a lot longer and cause nothing but grief for 3-7 players (who again, may be trying to help, but are ultimately ignored/insulted). Worse when said player sneaks into a farming party (or even a learning party), expecting a carry... and that's how the "no bonus message" was born in PF.

[hagare]

Because it is far from their job.

Does it benefit the community? Yes.

Is it their responsibility? No.

Is it the individual players responsibility to try to improve themselves? No, but much more so than the responsibility of the rest of the community.

The community, at least a good portion seems to have an "everyone must carry me!" attitude.

The bulk of the responsibility for a persons play, comes from that person.

But to your point, who do you think puts out all of those videos and guides that it's no ones responsibility to watch. Members of the "Community" is who.

well.... if you want your community to be better.
Then the responsibility is on everyone in that community to be willing to teach and learn.
If we all keep the mentality "it ain't my job, let someone else do it" then yea........
change the "ME! ME! ME!" attitude to "WE! WE! WE!"

[Kimbot]

Get a job grouch.

[zosia]

It allows and exacerbates.
Even if demand is there, if there is no supply, the people who buy runs are gonna have to change their attitude.
They're gonna either start learning or leave the raid scene.

Which is pretty much how it mostly goes in JP community.
Run selling is frowned upon there.

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content. Why should we bother investing in a community that has no interest in our concerns? I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

[hagare]

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content. Why should we bother investing in a community that has no interest in our concerns? I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

welp there it is folks.
the perfect example xD

I say bad players should be met with the apathy and disregard that they begot themselves.

coming from the person who helps create them:

When you can make 10 mil per merc from a day of sales, you are going to have a hard time convincing me to pass up selling content.

Thank you

[Starkbeaumont]

If ppl actually know how to play their job i don't mind if they haven't watched a vid or read a guide, though it is definitaly a bonus. that is for a PUG learning situation. In FC static/pt I expect everyone to at least have a basic idea of what will happen.

if ppl don't know how to tank/heal/damage at endgame, they should stay away and don't waste others time until they improve. it is one thing to struggle with new abilities while you are leveling but at endgame you better know your job. how good that someone can adjust to the situation of the content is another thing, but that is what learning is for.

But most ppl won't improve. They rather quit when given hints or been kick a few times than seek the fault by themself. and then go to the forums and call ppl elitist and toxic...

[Brian_]

People still don't get the point.

You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn.

You can talk all day about whose responsibility it is and all this other BS but if the players have a mindset that prevents them from learning, it's all useless rhetoric.

[Klamor]

snip

I see nothing in your post that could possibly be construed as a comment intended to actually discuss the topic at hand, and instead appears to simply be part of the problem that some would like to see fixed. As I stated before, this isn't an argument over whose time is more valuable. A person who has a couple hours a night to play should use their time in-game as efficiently as one who has 8-12 hours a day to play. If that means they simply don't have time to fit in the video that you state is 10 minutes vs wiping for an hour, then that's the hand they're dealt. It looks like you're trying to connect going in blind to NM Alexander, which is almost faceroll at this point, to doing the same in Savage, which would result in hours of wiping. The two are separate. I believe it's this exact state of mind that is the basis for why we have this rhetoric of "No exp? Git Gud" but can't "Git Gud" because they can't get experience.

If all you're trying to do is attack, please move along.

It is extremely insulting, selfish, entitled and all kinds of words like that to say "You know something I don't, it's your job to help me!", when you should be saying "I don't know this, please teach me." Maybe that is part of the difference in communities?

I'll agree with this one. This doesn't depend on, nor change because of, the content being done. It should be incumbent upon the newcomer to introduce themselves as being new, and asking for assistance. I've seen threads before, and seen it personally in game where blind runners will enter and cause a wipe, then ask why nobody told them to look out for the mechanic in question. The only response being the question of why they didn't ask for help at the beginning.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Leveling Gameplay:
- Content is easily soloed.
- Content is based around going into instances.
- Using Duty Finder doing dungeons, never having to speak to another person.

Endgame:
- Very easy to ramp up in power.
- No penalty for losing.
- No lose of progress for losing. You can try again and again. No lockouts for losing.
- Barely any reward or progression of your character.
- Very little difference between you and other players if any.

All dungeons are instanced, none are open world. Since you never need to talk to anyone it affects how you think late game. You never made any friends or allies leveling up. Even helping someone gets you no help.

Since there is no real penalty for dying, death is more of an annoyance then anything else. This means players do not seek other players for help, or help other players. Thus they never learn.

NA Culture usually follows what the game flows and teaches them. The game, literally teaches you to be completely anti-social and ignore everyone else, which goes to endgame.


Suggestions:
- Put a long lockout for hard content. This means if you give up and leave the zone you get punished for it, this also makes it harder to "buy" runs.
- Increase the penalty for losing substancially. Punish players for throwing their face at content, this also makes it harder to "buy" runs.
- Make open world in many areas harder. Put open world bosses that do mechanics of hard content in the world for people to party up and attempt. This lets people learn how fights are endgame. The rewards can give them a bonus for leveling that tier. (Example: Permanent 50% Experience bonus 50-60 for killing a level 50 world boss. Permanent 50% experience bonus 40-50 for killing a level 40 world boss.)
- Increase rewards for doing hard things.
- Increase experience gain dramatically from the open world.
- Make "Fates" a lot harder, but with far greater rewards and less frequent. Add an environment penalty for losing a fate. (You lost a fate, city is taken over and Aetheryte Crystal NO longer works there until it is taken back.)
- Increase gear adding special effects to the hardest to acquire gear. (Give Equipment special abilities, maybe even things like "Cursed" items which cannot be unequipped, start off very weak as a weapon and gets stronger and stronger each kill.)


This would make people better at endgame. Now the game teaches you to be social, and since the world is dangerous your actually seeking help from others.