Deliverance rant

[dank1]

I dont even need read past the "drk wave" comment to know youre the issue here and not the wars/drks you need to chill out and improve your skills as a healer rather than giving up at the slightest thing that doesnt go your way

[StouterTaru]

deliverance is 5% more raw damage and 10% more crit, on top of one more decimate. How exactly is unchained defiance stronger than that? It's not like you suddenly cant use op in deliverance. And no I'm not endorsing the waiting game, but unchained should really only be used as an opener before you zerk at all or if for some reason a pull drags out and you burn through all your other defensive cd's and need to turtle up again.

If you use vengeance near the start of every pull it'll be back up by around the same in the next pull in my experience. With really good dps maybe not, but that's rare in df. And sorry about misunderstanding what you said before, running on not much sleep atm. XD

8 overpower and a steel cyclone will beat out 3 decimate and single target swings on a huge pull, and staying in defiance you don't have to worry about that bad healer in the DF. If you're doing huge pulls, you should have solid AoE dps in the party. If you're doing small pulls and taking two minutes per pull, then the dps is seriously lacking.

[Dhex]

8 overpower and a steel cyclone will beat out 3 decimate and single target swings on a huge pull, and staying in defiance you don't have to worry about that bad healer in the DF. If you're doing huge pulls, you should have solid AoE dps in the party. If you're doing small pulls and taking two minutes per pull, then the dps is seriously lacking.

Sorry but the DPS output of WAR with a Triple Decimate while a WHM stun locks + Overpower/Zerk/BB makes mobs literally melt. I love running with friends we go STR build and 100% Deliverance WAR WAR MNK WHM and we finish Fractal/Neverreap in under 9 minutes. It is ridiculously fun.

[Freyyy]

Sorry but the DPS output of WAR with a Triple Decimate while a WHM stun locks + Overpower/Zerk/BB makes mobs literally melt.

Please explain me how you do triple Decimate while still using more than 1 Overpower during your Berserk window.

You're both wrong. The most AoE DPS you can get is by building your stacks with a single SE combo + RI + Vengeance, switch to Deliverance, BloodbathIRZerk, double Decimate and spam Overpower till pacified. Staying in Defiance and using Unchained is useless unless you're undergeared or your healer sucks. And doing triple Decimate forces you to use only single target moves during your Zerk phase and 1 more Decimate doesn't outweight 8 Overpowers.

[Rawrz]

Please explain me how you do triple Decimate while still using more than 1 Overpower during your Berserk window.

You're both wrong. The most AoE DPS you can get is by building your stacks with a single SE combo + RI + Vengeance, switch to Deliverance, BloodbathIRZerk, double Decimate and spam Overpower till pacified. Staying in Defiance and using Unchained is useless unless you're undergeared or your healer sucks. And doing triple Decimate forces you to use only single target moves during your Zerk phase and 1 more Decimate doesn't outweight 8 Overpowers.

Wouldn't it be better to Vengeance after you are in Deliverance? That way it doesn't suffer the damage penalty and it gains 5%. o-o Just wording order I know, but Vengeance is too damn sexy to pop in Defiance if you're going to be in Deliverance anyways.

[Dhex]

Please explain me how you do triple Decimate while still using more than 1 Overpower during your Berserk window.

You're both wrong. The most AoE DPS you can get is by building your stacks with a single SE combo + RI + Vengeance, switch to Deliverance, BloodbathIRZerk, double Decimate and spam Overpower till pacified. Staying in Defiance and using Unchained is useless unless you're undergeared or your healer sucks. And doing triple Decimate forces you to use only single target moves during your Zerk phase and 1 more Decimate doesn't outweight 8 Overpowers.

Welll uh you don't use Berserk on your first pull soooo.... Gather 4 stacks and refresh Maim before that mob set is finished then when pull next section land a Heavy Swing while moving - WHM Holy stunlocks pack in place - Berserk -> Decimate -> Infuriate -> Decimate -> Raw/Vengence/Maim -> Storm - OP -> Heavy/Maim -> Decimate -> Bloodbath spam a few Overpowers and then WHM pops Esuna for Pac maybe heals** (**but unlikely since you don't lose HP while stuff was stunlocked and you and your other WAR just did the same thing so y'all dealt 5/6 Decimates + a few OPs all while Zerk'd and now have Raw/Venge up anyway) so yeah stuff just melts before it can even touch either Warrior... then you finish anything left with your combos to refill stacks before a boss.

Yes this is speed running custom setup. Just like WP using a WHM/WHM PLD BRD when Holy spammin' was the bes-thing-eva.

No pugs probably won't be able to do it. You can try as a solo WAR in the DF but probably not going to get far without a WHM that gets it and uses Holy. Considering the frequency with which you encounter White Mages that hurdur only heal and forget that they can stunlock stuff or just suck outright - yeah you probably won't have a chance to do this often. If you're using Defiance for enmity... I mean I.. I don't get why? - Deliverance/BB/Overpower is more damage, gives a bigger self-heal, generate plenty of enmity and you can Decimate which is better than a Steel Cyclone. If you're getting hit by 8+ mobs and don't have a WHM to Holy they still will Bene you or a SCH would Lustrate spam so again no reason to Defiance... since neither of those are really going to be effected by bonus Healing and that extra few thousand HP isn't going to vastly change anything. If your Healer is a derpy pug you can always Holmgang and dance to Defiance after a pull and dish to Equilibrium for HP. If you have an AST I will cringe for you.


But yeah if you do go try this each WAR should hit around 2800-3200++ dps in i200 STR gear on 7/8+ mob packs usually.

:3

Grab a WHM buddy, another WAR buddy, and a DPS buddy (DRG is really nice to have in party) and go try it nothing is stopping you.
Make your "daily dungeon" more exciting? Yes-please-hoo.


PS: Dungeon content is a joke. You can clear without a healer (albeit much slower than usual).

[SpookyGhost]

Wouldn't it be better to Vengeance after you are in Deliverance? That way it doesn't suffer the damage penalty and it gains 5%. o-o Just wording order I know, but Vengeance is too damn sexy to pop in Defiance if you're going to be in Deliverance anyways.

It actually depends on your healer. SCH benefits more from Vengeance up front for the mitigation, AST benefits from it being used a bit later, and WHM benefits from it being used the latest (when stun immunity kicks in). While Vengeance's damage reflect thing is a DPS increase, it's also your biggest mitigation tool, so priority goes to mitigation when you're pulling a butt ton of mobs and your healer is DPSing.

[Freyyy]

Wouldn't it be better to Vengeance after you are in Deliverance? That way it doesn't suffer the damage penalty and it gains 5%. o-o Just wording order I know, but Vengeance is too damn sexy to pop in Defiance if you're going to be in Deliverance anyways.

Vengeance's potency is calculated each time the counter effect is triggered, it's not like DoTs.

[ArdorGrey]

8 overpower and a steel cyclone will beat out 3 decimate and single target swings on a huge pull, and staying in defiance you don't have to worry about that bad healer in the DF. If you're doing huge pulls, you should have solid AoE dps in the party. If you're doing small pulls and taking two minutes per pull, then the dps is seriously lacking.

I'm confused. Where did I say anything about the triple decimate thing? or taking two minutes for small pulls? The middle part kinda responded to my question, but is innaccurate. please look at what frey mentions a few posts down, with that it doesn't matter whether your healer is good or bad, you can sustain yourself more effectively with bloodbath then whatever they do.

[Tyrial]

Welll uh you don't use Berserk on your first pull soooo.... Gather 4 stacks and refresh Maim before that mob set is finished then when pull next section land a Heavy Swing while moving - WHM Holy stunlocks pack in place - Berserk -> Decimate -> Infuriate -> Decimate -> Raw/Vengence/Maim -> Storm - OP -> Heavy/Maim -> Decimate -> Bloodbath spam a few Overpowers and then WHM pops Esuna for Pac maybe heals** (**but unlikely since you don't lose HP while stuff was stunlocked and you and your other WAR just did the same thing so y'all dealt 5/6 Decimates + a few OPs all while Zerk'd and now have Raw/Venge up anyway) so yeah stuff just melts before it can even touch either Warrior... then you finish anything left with your combos to refill stacks before a boss..

Why would you do something that produces less potency overall?

In your post you mention most packs are 7-8 mobs, so we'll use 8 mobs that are being hit. Not counting the mid-pull Heavy Swing you're looking at 8 GCDs from the time you do your first Decimate to the third.

Your basic GCD rotation you listed (minus buffs thrown in) looks like this:

Decimate > Decimate > Maim > SE > OP > HS > Maim > Decimate

Taking base potency without any buffs other than Combo value you're looking at:

2240 (Decimate on 8 mobs) > 2240(Dec) > 190(Maim) > 270(SE) > 960 (OP on 8 mobs) > 150(HS) > 190(Maim) > 2240 (Dec)

Total Potency: 8480


A double Decimate/OP spam rotation (assuming you started at the same number of stacks) with a mid-pull Heavy Swing:

Maim > Decimate > Decimate > OP > OP > OP > OP > OP

Potency:

190(Maim) > 2240(Dec) > 2240(Dec) > 960(OP) > 960(OP) > 960(OP) > 960(OP) > 960(OP)

Total Potency: 9470