/p Blood Price used, WHMs do not use Holy for 15 seconds <se.1>

[RocheKat]

@Rahal
:O, I'm happy to admit I'm one of the idiots that didn't know BP works that way (Somebody else mentioned keeping BP for heavy damage phases, so I assumed it is determined by damage taken ).

Any idea what is the hard limit you can get hit per second?

I mean, 5% per mob hit seems to be a hell lotta MP recovered IMHO, wondering even if DRK and WHM locked horns (Holy and BP activated together), is the 8 seconds remaining on BP after the 7 second stun wore off not enough to recover the MP you used?

Saving BP is for times when you are not going to get hit much/at all. First boss in fractal and ravana are good examples of bosses that have big gaps between hits on the tank because of their specials. Drk can spend MP on damage faster than it can be recovered in most cases so there really is no such thing as enough MP. Personally I think blood price is stupid cooldown for a tank but I guess SE doesn't agree.

[Syzygian]

Personally I think blood price is stupid cooldown for a tank but I guess SE doesn't agree.

I fail to see the logic in people with this view. As a tank, if you're not the one getting hit by shit, you're not doing your job on the most fundamental and basic of levels. Having a cooldown that boosts your resources for DPS/mitigation/enmity based on getting hit is simply good game design.

Either way, you can't stun 99% of bosses in this game which means for purposes of this thread discussing BP usage on bosses is moot, but for what its worth, this is why a DRK must have such intimate knowledge of a fight, to learn when they are going to be hit the most (not the hardest; that doesn't matter) and thus learn opportunities to get the most MP.

[RocheKat]

I fail to see the logic in people with this view. As a tank, if you're not the one getting hit by shit, you're not doing your job on the most fundamental and basic of levels. Having a cooldown that boosts your resources for DPS/mitigation/enmity based on getting hit is simply good game design.

Not just getting hit... getting hit as many times as possible. Oh and Drk has tools to reduce the chances they will be hit which adds to the wth factor of bloodprice.

[Syzygian]

Oh and Drk has tools to reduce the chances they will be hit which adds to the wth factor of bloodprice.

*epic sigh*

No. A skilled DRK uses these when BP is on cooldown. How is this not common knowledge yet?

#LOGIC

[Imoen]

Not just getting hit... getting hit as many times as possible. Oh and Drk has tools to reduce the chances they will be hit which adds to the wth factor of bloodprice.

If you are just saying Dark Dance, then ya, don't use that at the same time BP is up, use something else to stack with it like Shadowskin, shadowwall, foresight, convalescence, or awareness. Or a combination of those. EDIT: (Specifically DA+DD, you can still use base DD without DA.)

Use DD if you want to attempt to force a proc on reprisal, or if BP on CD for w/e reason assuming the mobs are still alive at that point.

Unless you are including Dark arts+ dark passenger combo because of the blind?

[RocheKat]

*epic sigh*

No. A skilled DRK uses these when BP is on cooldown. How is this not common knowledge yet?

#LOGIC

So mr angry... care to comment on the first part? Where BP works best when you get hit as many times as possible?

If you are just saying Dark Dance, then ya, don't use that at the same time BP is up, use something else to stack with it like Shadowskin, shadowwall, foresight, convalescence, or awareness. Or a combination of those.

Use DD if you want to attempt to force a proc on reprisal, or if BP on CD for w/e reason assuming the mobs are still alive at that point.

DD, DA + DD, DA + DP, and Low blow. That is 3 or 4(depending on how if you count DD twice) abilities you have that reduce its effectiveness. Many of the other jobs also have stuns and slows which have the same negative effects on BP. Warriors never want to be hit, Plds pretty much never want to be hit unless they really want a shield swipe proc. The OP is talking about this issue... other people in your party can change how your class plays in a negative way.

[Syzygian]

So mr angry... care to comment on the first part? Where BP works best when you get hit as many times as possible?

As opposed to what? Getting hit as many times as a WAR or PLD would tanking the same group of trash? Except getting a resource benefit from it that you can spend on
A: DPS(Enmity)?
B: Mitigation?
C: Self-Heals?

You get hit so you can get MP and MP is everything for DRK. All the hits that you take are pretty much just a wave that you surf on. Not getting hit at all is only one form of mitigation. And its a very rare/infrequent one. Most of the time you're reducing the damage or eating it and healing it back.

Scenario: I tank 6 mobs, they all hit me once, doing a total of 3K damage. I use the MP to DA an Abyssal Drain and heal for that same amount. Where is the issue here? There isn't one.

And as established (thankfully) in this thread, it matters not how much damage you take from these hits or even if they hit you for zero damage, you get MP. The primary function of this game's tanking mitigation is to reduce damage, not avoid getting hit (except when BP is on cooldown! then its dodgefest), until we have a genuine evasion-based tank.

Not angry, just very weary of seeing the "B-b-but DRK has MP regen based on getting hit... and it also has evasion boosting/blinding CDs... what do?" arguments when there's 25 seconds out of every 40 where you getting hit has no impact on your MP.

DD, DA + DD, DA + DP, and Low blow. That is 3 or 4(depending on how if you count DD twice) abilities you have that reduce its effectiveness. Many of the other jobs also have stuns and slows which have the same negative effects on BP. Warriors never want to be hit, Plds pretty much never want to be hit unless they really want a shield swipe proc. The OP is talking about this issue... other people in your party can change how your class plays in a negative way.

DD by itself (parrying) has no impact on BP returns. And I can easily just.. well.. not use my stun while I'm AoEing... or just use it anyway and cut my losses (a single hit of Blood Price from stunning a single mob out of many costing me an utterly negligible amount of MP). When a WHM uses holy and stuns 10 mobs however, that's 1000s of MP that just isn't happening now.

And also, PLD and WAR definitely want to be hit. They are tanks. And they do not have evasion-based cooldowns unless you're cross-classing lolFeatherfoot on WAR. You want to be hit, you just want to mitigate the hits or heal them up. That's what tanking is in this game. They all wanna get hit, because if they aren't getting hit, its the WHM getting hit 99 times out of 100 and when that happens they die and then you die. Tanks want to get hit. Period. Its a foregone conclusion when rolling a tank that you will be HIT. A LOT. Its a certainty. I fail to see why its bad that DRK just happens to get an additional reward from being hit and what point making such an argument has.

[Imoen]

snip

Sorry, I don't really understand.

DA+DD is an issue because that is evasion, I don't believe straight parry effects BP's return.
DA+DP is an issue because of the blind.

You just don't stack DA with these when BP is up.

As far as Low blow is concerned that is usually reserved for stunning special moves, or if BP is down and you are just trying to stop incoming damage.

[RocheKat]

As opposed to what? Getting hit as many times as a WAR or PLD would tanking the same group of trash?

uh... when war or pld is taking the whm can spam stun and not harm them in any way... or a slow on everything... or a blind on everything. That is the entire reason for the guy posting in the first place. He wants to get hit on Drk and Whms are messing with that.

As far as Low blow is concerned that is usually reserved for stunning special moves, or if BP is down and you are just trying to stop incoming damage.

Low blow is off GCD 100 pot + stun so it increases your damage done and reduces the damage you take. It has chance to reset on parry which works well with DD (providing you don't use DA first and yet again screw with your own abilities) and in aoe pulls resets a lot. The point was that Drk has multiple tools to reduce the chance of being hit at all which goes against DP and low blow since you can't parry when you evade.

These are issues Pld and War don't have.

[Syzygian]

uh... when war or pld is taking the whm can spam stun and not harm them in any way... or a slow on everything... or a blind on everything. That is the entire reason for the guy posting in the first place. He wants to get hit on Drk and Whms are messing with that.

Actually the OP is a WHM complaining about DRKs, not the other way around. I think I'm the only one that noticed that. Raid Awareness! xD

The WHM versus DRK thing has been covered. What you're talking about in your recent posts is DRK somehow sabotaging itself through its own abilities, and that's what I'm responding to as someone that mains the job and raids with it and intimately understands its design.