What is Zodiark?

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Lots, lots of interesting thing have been said here, theories I knew and some I didn't... Very interesting thread, really !


Kuwa has the same point of view as me, so I won't argue any more on that, I'll just wait for more speculations from you Guys ! I'd Just like to speculate on Darkness, as Zodiark is deeply linked with it. Here comes DRK spoilers, and maybe some PLD spoilers as well, so you've been warned !

To me, Darkness is pretty obviously Feelings in General. Pre-50 DRK quests keep telling us That darkness is the power to reach our dreams (dreams being... Well, what we wish for, what we love), and the post-50 tell us that Darkness, the power of Darkness, is brought to us by Passion... That passion being, for Sidurgu, Hate most of the times, and finally Love (as in fatherly love... I hope.)... Yet, as Deep as Sid drowned into Darkness, he still ended up a Nice guy, letting the real baddie go after all she's done... Because he remembered what it felt, being separated from his mother, and didn't want the same for the kid he was protecting.

Darkness granted him power, but it also gave him compassion. Because he felt, because he suffered, he became a better man through Darkness. Through his feelings. Darkness isn't bad, it's Just impulsive because it represents what we are, Deep at heart.

On the other hand, light... Well, if we link light to the PLDs, which seems logical for me, as they're grantes more holy powers with 3.0, light isn't That great.

In the 60's PLD quest, we got to defeat the guy we taught how to be a PLD (ok, it was a co-student rather than a student, but it's basically a friend we're pretty linked to), and the result of That duel is... The crystal of the winner eating the light out of the other, and thus gaining power. Basically, we're beating up a friend to gain power, to steal his power from him... We're killing his dream in order to gain power. And that's not something special, it's said to be the traditional way for PLD to strengthen up.

So light chooses the most powerful among the two That fought. But the difference in power between the two isn't That great... What really differs is the will to win, the ability to forget That guy right There is your friend, and That you're crushing his dream if You beat him. Something opposed to feelings in fact, and That is, traditionally, Reason.

With That interpretation, Zodiark represents Passion and Hydaelyn Reason, so yeah, There needs to be an equilibrium between both.

[Kaiser-Ace]

That's getting into the traditional concepts of Yin and Yang being Thoughts and Ideals, two opposing forces that MUST be in balence or if risks destroying all things.

Harmony and Chaos, Order and Disorder, Light and Darkness, all things must be in balence for the good of the living. To much Light is just as dangerous as to much Darkness.

[Frederick22]

After seeing the Ascians's FUSION! into the ascian prime ( aka reaper ) makes to think that Zordiark, makes me to belive that is presencer is nothing more than dead and chaos

[Februs]

Snip.

There's actually an alternative interpretation to the PLD questline that is supported by the nature of how DRK's and PLD's tank.

You're right that PLD's rely on discipline and reason whereas DRK's rely on passion and power. This is a key distinction between their styles of combat. However, the PLD's attainment of greater power does not necessarily mean stomping all over your fellow man's hopes and dreams. Competition is more important than victory.

The idea behind the PLD's mentality of attaining strength was that you needed to push each other past your limits. You need a rival from whom you can learn and to whom you can act as a mentor. Obviously there can only be one winner in a contest, but you are constantly improving each other through the drive to defeat one another. This, by default, also means that a PLD needs their friends in order to get more powerful, and this is embodied by their method of tanking.

PLD's are considered to be the most group oriented tank. They have moves that effect the group (Shield Veil, Cover, etc). They have high defense but limited abilities to self heal (Clemency is more for healing your buddies). A healer is required to maximize their tanking potential (enter Convalescence). They have low dmg compared to other tanks when in shield oath, so they need Dps. PLD's are all about group potential and making the group better whenever possible.

By comparison, DRK's have a more selfish style of tanking and the source of their power comes from within.

Consider that the entire first 50 lvls of DRK, you are literally being taught by the Darkness within you. The lvl 60 quests don't really change this. You're not being taught. You don't have a mentor. You don't have a rival except yourself. You are fueled on passion. This is reflected in their tanking.

DRK's have zero group utility. Not a single DRK move does anything for anyone except the DRK. They power up themselves. They defend themselves. No one else. It's a high risk high reward style of tanking.

When you consider these things, the light side of it all gets a little more favourable.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I can't agree with you at all, Februs x)

DRK do not learn by themselves : Sid and Fray had a master they adored and respected, and he taught them everything he knew. In a similar way, Sid is a teacher for us, although he's himself pretty confused for a while... Mogs, finally, are our masters, and tell us about the power of Love to dominate Darkness. DRK are no more selfish than PLD, but they do have some bitter pieces of mind. For example, they are given some aptitudes like Sole Survivor, that grant'em more power when they resent hate or the joy of killing... When they are passionated, in fact. But the thing is : their skills are linked to sadness, hate, and their power is governed by love. The most powerful passions.

In fact, they are tanks, not because they have to, but because they want to protect their friends.

And PLD do work together... but in the end, as I said, they devour each other's power. It's clearly said, several times : when you eat the light of a PLD's crystal, it needs to be rebuilt over time, the loser loses his power. And the ultimate sword of PLDs reacts to the PLD that earned the most light. However I look at it, it seems pretty dark... Yes, PLD are group tanks, but because they have to, or so it seems... Maybe it's because of friendship, but they seem to get rid of friendship pretty easily...

[Morningstar1337]

That's getting into the traditional concepts of Yin and Yang being Thoughts and Ideals, two opposing forces that MUST be in balence or if risks destroying all things.

Well if pokemon can pull it off...

[Februs]

Snip.

That's not exactly what I meant lol. When I said that Drk's are "selfish" I was referring to their tanking style specifically. By comparion to War's and Pld's, they have no raid/group utility besides dmg output (which is trumped by War's). They excel at group aggro, but they have no skills that are beneficial to a party. Drks may have selfless intentions, but the source of their power is very personal and comes from within.

I can't agree with you either in regards to the Drk's mentor/student relationship either lol. While it is true that both Fray and Sid had a mentor that they adored, he failed to teach them adequately as Fray died and Sid was a novice at best who failed to understand the nature of the darkness within him.

Further, we learn absolutely nothing from either of them. For one, Fray was not Fray. His body was reanimated by our own powers of darkness. The reason it had any of Fray's characteristics is because we were channeling our darkness through Fray's crystal, but, in truth, we were never truly speaking to Fray. We were speaking to ourselves. This was made completely clear in the final fight where we face off against our Darkside. We were facing ourselves the entire time, and teaching ourselves the way by embracing the history of Drk's that was preserved int he crystal.

When we meet Sid we still are teaching ourselves. Throughout the entirety of the Sid arc, we don't really learn anything that we didn't teach ourselves, and it's made clear that it was not us that was lacking, but Sid. The Moogles don't teach us a lesson. They teach him a lesson. We just witness it. Notice that in every cutscene it is not Us that come to revelations, but Sid. We just simply nod and smile at him as if to say "about time you figured this out, you big idiot." It's made pretty apparent throughout the entire 50-60 grind that we actually had a better grip on our own emotional state and it's relation to the darkness than Sid did.

[Februs]

when you eat the light of a PLD's crystal, it needs to be rebuilt over time, the loser loses his power. And the ultimate sword of PLDs reacts to the PLD that earned the most light. However I look at it, it seems pretty dark... Yes, PLD are group tanks, but because they have to, or so it seems... Maybe it's because of friendship, but they seem to get rid of friendship pretty easily...

I'm also curious to know where you're getting your reasoning that the Pld's absorption of one crystal's light into another is somehow draining to the "loser."You make it sound as though the stronger Pld's crystal acts as a parasite and sucks the power out of the lesser Pld's crystal... but I don't recall that ever being the case. I don't remember any cutscenes or story content that say that the "loser" Pld has to rebuild his power or is somehow weakened. It's not as though Constaint or Jenlyns are somehow made weaker by the process. They both retain their status as Pld's and both have all their moves (even if they suck at using them). If anything, what is implied by the lore of Oathkeeper is that the passing of light from one Pld to another is not a parasitic action, it is an accumulative action shared across all Pld and culminating in the current best of the order.

Basically, Oathkeeper required the strength of all Pld's to be restored to its former glory. Being the head of the Sultansworn, Jenlyns retains the cumulative power of all his subordinates, which he passes to us as his crystal recognizes us to be more worthy. The battle between us and Solkzagyl and us was simply a way for the Crystals to decide which of us was worthy to hold the mantel and responsibility of enriching the sword Oathkeeper with ALL of the accumulated power of the Pld order.

This theory is supported by the lore of they crystals as well, because we are told in the earliest Pld missions that the skills and abilities were are taught by the Crystal are those which have been passed down through the generations, and recorded in the immortal memory of the crystals. A Pld's power is not purely his own power. It is the power that has accumulated through generations of Pld's and passed on to the next. The reason that Oathkeeper did not glow was because it had fallen out of the hands of Pld's and the Pld order was fractured. The battle was necessary in order to show the sword that the accumulated strength of the Pld order was still in tact and best represented by us, the very best of the order. That's the whole reason Sokzagyl went through all that trouble in the first place.

[Kallera]

When we meet Sid we still are teaching ourselves. Throughout the entirety of the Sid arc, we don't really learn anything that we didn't teach ourselves, and it's made clear that it was not us that was lacking, but Sid. The Moogles don't teach us a lesson. They teach him a lesson...

This isn't true. The original idea of going to moghome came from the dying dragon, to learn the "better way" the moogles came up with. He asked your character, not Sid, the explanation on where DRKs get their power. So at least from there, they too are still mistaken. Sid makes the connection later, yes, but it that particular lesson was one that both DRKs were learning from the visit.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I agree with Kallera, and although we never met Fray, we know Fray was definitely a good guy. He died trying to protect the kid (I don't remember names very well...), and that's sacrificing himself for love. We didn't meet him, but he existed and was seemingly one of the nicest Guys we met. Yet he knew Much about darkness.


Yet, you're right, we learn many things by ourselves. But that's not negative at all. It's more dangerous because, like Sid was going to do, we can isolate ourselves in a passion such as Hate.... But ultimately, darkness is neutral. It can achieve a greater good through love or terrible deeds through hate. Ultimately, Darkness is the power to achieve one's dream, and protect the individuals.

And on PlDs, it's highly theoric. Maybe I'm wrong, but the crystal's nature seems to enforce my interpretation. Each Crystal is charged with the light successive PLDs obtained, and we can see that charge as a physical one : A mere number. Therefore, when your crystal gains power from another... Aether does not create himself, it obeys to law, and there's probably, like a mass conservation law, a Aether Conservation Law. The light aether you obtain needs to come from somewhere, and the only known recipient to Light Aether is PLDs' crystals. So necessarily, you devour their aether.

The loser can still build back his aether (following the ACL, he probably converted it from elemental aether, day after day, fight after fight), but he loses a part of his power anyway. Oathkeeper seems not to react to the value or individual strenth of its bearer, but the ligh aether's PLD's crystal's charge of its bearer. So you can become the wielder of Oathkeeper by yourself, but the fastest way is acquiring power through duels. You can disagree, it's a theory, but it seems the more convincing for me... And then, ultimately, PLD's power is the power to achieve a greater good, to protect humanity, even if That means destroying some men.

So yeah, DRK and PLD are opposed, and I don't say one is better, in a matter of values, than the other. I say That Darkness is based on individuals, while Light is based on collectivity.