Wanderer’s Minuet, Gauss Barrel and Positive Gameplay Additions

[Alahra]

It's such a weird situation, one that I've never experienced with the other casting jobs.

Best I can tell, it has to do with the fact that the cast time isn't equal to the GCD for BRD and MCH. The timing and queueing of spells on BLM and SMN (and healers, for that matter) tends to feel similar to GCD Weaponskills because they're all about the same length. MCH and BRD have a 1.5 second cast-time, though, with about 1 second to use oGCD stuff. That one second is actually about a quarter of a second less than they have without WM/GB active, which makes them "flow" differently from everybody else. (Casters and healers also have instant-cast tools they can use to use oGCDs comfortably and BRD doesn't have anything like that--MCH at least can use them during procs with ammunition).

[Welsper59]

Best I can tell, it has to do with the fact that the cast time isn't equal to the GCD for BRD and MCH. The timing and queueing of spells on BLM and SMN (and healers, for that matter) tends to feel similar to GCD Weaponskills because they're all about the same length. MCH and BRD have a 1.5 second cast-time, though, with about 1 second to use oGCD stuff. That one second is actually about a quarter of a second less than they have without WM/GB active, which makes them "flow" differently from everybody else. (Casters and healers also have instant-cast tools they can use to use oGCDs comfortably and BRD doesn't have anything like that--MCH at least can use them during procs with ammunition).

Yeah, that's honestly the best assumption to run with on the matter. I'm guessing devs do their testing on local machines offline/LAN, rather than based on server data disparities. Just like how it is with mudra lag, I'm quite sure BRD/MCH rotations work perfectly when done without needing to worry about data sent to and from the servers.

[Fluffya]

Casting is a lost of dps because you can only enter one ogcd.

For one gcd
With WM: straight shot, bloodletter.
Without WM: straight shot, bloodletter, blunt arrow.

Also the casting time prevent a bloodletter spam since the proc will happen after you already press a cast using skill.
Straight shot, bloodletter, (gcd over but still no proc so using another skill) then bloodletter proc while casting, another proc of bloodletter but still casting...

WM is a choker who is preventing bard to fully use his potential.
I really miss those 6-7 bloodletters in a row because for me, it was the Wow! of bard.

[AryaValere]

I only recently got my bard to 54 and realized what they were doing with this wm song. I just don't understand what the purpose of is besides making bard less interesting. This is a change to the "soul" of the class. I played bard because I loved throwing in all those off gc abilities while running around like a madman. It was fun to me because it was a ranged class built around having no cast times. Why change that? It doesn't add anything, all it does is change the soul of the class. Before I was a graceful archer/musician dancing around the battlefield playing my songs, now I'm just a clunky caster. I hate it.

[RiceisNice]

...

Can't necessarily post numbers, but I can sum it up like this; BRD's dps got increased by WM the same way that other jobs have increased their dps through their new skills.. Bard is not the only job that has their dps increased, but other jobs as well. And because of that, the overall damage is still relatively the same as it was in 2.0 (BRD/MCH is still behind other dps jobs by default).

It's not an issue per say (their damage is fine the way it is), but it really throws into the air what they really want BRD/MCH to fill. Are we nerfing their dps because of their mobility (which WM/GB tones down abit, but the damage discrepdency is still the same) or is it because of their support abilities? If it's the latter, why even slam both jobs with the exact same skill to limit mobility (aside from the fact that mobiltiy in itself wasn't that huge of a boon when it came to dps, considering that BLMs and melee were still consistently doing more than BRDs in 2.0).

The way it is right now, BRD and MCH both have the exact same mobility that limits their mobility, and they still play with the same general foundation (keeping DoTs up, re-acting to procs, keeping buffs up). Compared to a SMN/BLM, both have completely different dynamics to their rotation/dps, on top of that SMN is arguably more mobile than BLM, but the two jobs are still fairly close together in dps despite that and players still opt out for whichever is preferble to their playstyle. To me, I don't get that luxury when I chose between MCH or BRD. Instead I'm defaulting to MCH simply because their playstyle, while it's incredibly similar to BRD, actually works when it comes to the procs.

[Vespar]

SNIP.

You sir/ma'am have summed up in a few posts EXACTLY why I gave up on maining Bard. It's not just about the numbers. Its about the feels! I loved Bard, but it just "feels" so clunky and not right now. Ive been all over the spectrum leveling other jobs in an effort to replace a love I still cant bear to part with (aka Bard).

Sure, I've gotten used to using WM. I still cant say that I like it. And while it bugs me when other bards refuse to use it (because like it or not it does add to Bard's overall dmg albeit not as much as we'd like), I still sympathize with those who refuse to turn it on. Heck, I agree with them its just.. not right. Something always feels off about it.

To me, I don't get that luxury when I chose between MCH or BRD. Instead I'm defaulting to MCH simply because their playstyle, while it's incredibly similar to BRD, actually works when it comes to the procs.

Ive always felt that the only real major difference between the two is their ESO gear designs lol.

[Judge_Xero]

This isn't true, though. BRD/MCH are about 20% behind the melee DPS *with* Minuet/Gauss, and they were about 20% behind them at 50 *without* Minuet/Gauss. Therefore, they *don't* do the same proportional damage. That's why in some sense it "feels" like a nerf--their overall damage is about the same relative to everyone else and they now are less mobile (and somewhat "clunkier") than before.

You should examine BRD dps from skilled players @ fflogs.com

Fights outside of being single boss tank + spank, BRD/MCN is nearly on par with melee DPS.
If BRD/MCN ST was boosted higher they could outperform melee due to the increased versatility from WM/GB in AOE/Multi Dotting.

You can't compare them directly dummy parse VS dummy parse due to this, because the moment you add 2+ Mobs then BRD/MCN DPS raises so much, and the Potency/second Ratio with WM/GB On VS Off skyrockets.

[UnstablePersonality]

Like I said previously..Gauss barrel sucks..Wanderer's does too..I like the fact of being able to move around..now you add those into and boom cast times and having to cancel to dodge which still costs DPS anyway...people say this was done for balancing issues..but what does it really balance? Melee DPS don't have cast times and still would do more damage anyway...seems like more of a setback if you ask me.

[RiceisNice]

...

Unless I'm looking at it wrong, they're still behind the true dps jobs (even for the occasional ninja, but they in general are incredibly under-represented due to the current meta like MCH/PLD) by a good amount on all the fights. And even with FFlogs, it shows the incredible outliers on all jobs, and even with that it still has BRD/MCH still being a bit under other jobs on average even under ideal circumstances of multi-dotting or dealing with no mechanics. While it's not directly 20% (because I've used this as a broad example, it's closer to around 10-15%) it's still lower overall damage on average given the best circumstances (assuming every group runs this log).

[StriderShinryu]

I wanted a ranged DPS class as a secondary so I tried BLM. While I enjoyed the mechanics of the tug of war between Astral and Umbral, I couldn't stand being rooted in place so much of the time. I then tried ARC and really enjoyed it largely because of the fact that I could move if I wanted to. I know I don't need to run around much, especially in a group scenario where a tank is holding aggro, but the freedom to do so if/when I want is a major part of my enjoyment of the class. I recently hit 50 on BRD and knowing that what I can look forward to in the next 10+ levels is a loss of what I've actually enjoyed in the class for 50 levels is, quite frankly, a bit of a kick in the teeth. If something like this were introduced at, say, level 20 it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Late introduced mechanics should absolutely make a class feel more diverse and more powerful, but they should never change the way a class actually plays.