"Who...what are you?"

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I agree with Lawful Neutral... But I fail to see why most of you hate Thordan.


He didn't summon Thordan to gain power, not to reign eternally... He summoned Thordan to destroy the Ascians. To protect his people. It's true, he wanted to protect the theocracy, because the theocracy was a mean to empower Thordan, and thus, having more power to destroy the Ascians, protecting the city. Yes, he ****ed the dragons but he wasn't That bad of a guy, his will to protect Ishgard was pure. I think we definitely did a mistake killing it. He was a Lawful Good (loyal neutral at least) character, and that implies that sometimes, you gotta sacrifice something, even really important to you, for the greater good, the good of the people you're loyal to... Ishgard, for the archbishop.

I recognize that he let a part of his people suffer, but... They were alive. Without him, without a leader as pure of heart as him, the Ascians would have dominated Ishgard, and the dragons would have destroyed the city.

What he saw in us was the vassal of Hydaelyn, as Ascians were the vassals of Zodiark... But it's not because we serve light than we are better for the city than Ascians. In his opinion, we weren't different from the Ascians. Empowered beings toying with the fate of a world we aren't really part of.

I know what you may think... "Well, Arca, we established democracy and killes the bad guys, the ascians, we protected the city from Ravana and Bismarck !". Well, first of all, I'm not truly sure democracy is good for Ishgard (not a political debate, I'm Just saying it isn't that good for Ishgard), and second... Yeah, we're Ascians' ennemies. But we're still the same thing, basically. And to be honest... We didn't helped Much. We strengthened Niddhog, we killed the Celestial Dragoon (not sure of his title...) we dragged Ishgard in the Alliance (because yeah, everybody knows others Alliance's cities are perfectly fine, dragging Ishgard in That mess will definitely help) and crushed beast tribes That were a mere nuisance before we joined in.

We're good as long as we don't think about what we're doing, and just look superficially at things. Actually, we're just doing what we're told to, and good has nothing to do with it. The only thing That matters is crushing Zodiark. Yup. Warrior of Light, people. Warrior. Not Emissary or anything. We're born to kill and destroy. That's why Thordan was afraid of us, wondered what we are and said we were fools.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

snip

I don't agree with any of this. Yes, Thordon wanted to end the chaos and anguish that the Dragonsong War brought, but he was willing to to become a primal in order to do so and we (as in we the players and characters in game) already know why primals are bad news. He also displayed extremist traits since he believed what he was doing was the only way to truly solve the problem and not joining his side paints you as his enemy that needs to be put down. Thordon's greater good was, at best, a short term solution that would not benefit people in the long run. To me he wasn't "bad", but just wrong in his approach.

You say Thordon was "pure of heart", but I say he was delusional and desperate. His actions in becoming a primal, along with his knights twelve, would have quickly gained the attention of the Garlean Empire since they want to get rid of primals by any means. Now you traded one war for another war by swapping dragons with humanity. You also forget that Nidhogg had no intention of destroying Ishgard; he wanted to make the people suffer forever until they either gave up in despair or became dragons. As Alphinaud had said, "Nidhogg could have easily destroyed Ishgard by himself many times over."

You say the WOL and the Ascians are basically one and the same, but they are barely close other than the power they exhibit. We learn through Tiamat that the Ascians caused shenanigans many eons ago and were responsible for the Allagans learning how to summon and control primals and the Ascians also had a hand in making Bahamut a primal, which caused the Calamity many years later that Eorzea is still recovering from to this day. What has the WOL done so far? Slay a bunch of primals, stopped the Empire from taking over, and managed to get dragon and man to rebuild their relationship with one another. From the eyes of the common folk, who do you think they are going to side with (assuming they know who the Asians are for argument's sake)?

You also believe Ishgard was dragged" into the Alliance, but seem to conveniently forget that Ishgard returning was sorely needed if Eorzea as a whole wants to repel the Empire and help each other out. That's how national relationships build and flourish. A house divided, etc etc. Ishgard tried to stay out of everyone else's problems, but they couldn't ignore the fact that if the other city-states had fallen, Ishgard would be the Empire's next target. You also say we crushed the beast tribes, but I don't see any of that. Repel seems to be the better term since there's really no resolution with the beast tribes in the main scenario in terms of closure. You claim that the beastmen were just a nuisance, but also seem to forget said beastmen (the fanatic ones at least) summon primals and I don't think I need to be reminding you time and time again why having a primal out in the world is bad for everyone. (There's also the beast tribe quests whose overall purpose is to try and get people and beastmen working together again (kinda like the dragons, eh?), even if it's just a few baby steps at a time)

You say a democracy in Ishgard is bad, but why? How is it worse than what they had previously? Are you just saying it's bad for the sake of it?


I think you're either looking too deep into this or are trying to make a HUGE claim that the WOL is actually a villain that doesn't see what their actions is causing just to say that "we're the real bad guys". Final Fantasy is always going to have the player be the heroes in one form or another that eventually works out in the end.

[Kuwagami]

I think you're either looking too deep into this or are trying to make a HUGE claim that the WOL is actually a villain that doesn't see what their actions is causing just to say that "we're the real bad guys". Final Fantasy is always going to have the player be the heroes in one form or another that eventually works out in the end.

Thing is, we really are a warrior of light, becoming a super powerful killing machina (we have slain quite a few beastmen, mighians, dragons, Garleans, primals, and even 2 immortal beings. Granted their immortality had flaws, but still). Wether our actions are good or not isn't really us to tell. Yeah we stopped the Garlean invasion which would have ended in a bloodshed. Yeah we stopped (or started to stop) a millenium-old war between dragons and Ishgardians (technically, ishgardians vs ishgardians). And yeah we stopped the rampage and aether sucking process of a lot of primals.

All of these might be considered good (depends on the point of view for the Garlean episode), but in the end, what resulted is that we became overpowered, even for the taste of Elidibus who is more aiming for balance between Light and Darkness than the mere return of Zodiark (as much as I understand what that shadowy character thinks). So far, he hadn't done anything against us and was super pissed by Lahabrea and Nabriales's attempts to kill us.

What we, as the WoL, do with that power will be the key factor that will determine wether we bring harm to the world or not. But I am of the opinion that overthrowing the balance between Light and Darkness as we currently do (not by our own chief, but we're still doing it because of everything that is thrown at us) isn't really the good thing.



From a RP perspective, Kuwagami has become some kind of a sadist over the time spent slaying countless fanatic beastmen, dragons, and primals (the warrior's blood is boiling hard). My guess is that Thordan couldn't believe that he enjoyed fighting and slaying his enemies so much. He's some kind of monster in the inside.