"Who...what are you?"

[Morningstar1337]

On Thordan : Yes, he was misguided, but well... The WoL didn't try to discuss with him once he knew the truth, he just went and fight, like Thordan himself... And the only solution we viewed to that problem was killing him. So he may have been an extremist, but we were as well...

I feel I should point out that Aymneric offered (nay went) to ask Throdian about this after we killed the Malice Striker, Nidhogg. Twere that not the case, we probably would had confronted him before going after Sky Moby Dick, but since the Vault came before that, and with it the revilation that he and the Twelve knights became primals, it might not had changed anything (and we prolly had to break through the Vault anyway to confront Throdian), unless you can think of a way for Primals to exist without bleeding Hydealyn dry of Aether (INB4 claims of the WoL being indoctrinated/tempered)

I try to answer the original question of the thread, that's all

Also the reason i made this thread was to ask how the ending affected the player's character from a RP standpoint.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Well, I really don't know how Ellice reacted as I don't identify at all to the WoL... But I think she would have stopped working for Hydaelyn almost instantly. Ellice is a really sensible character, and should she understand That she hurt somebody, or let her feelings and reasoning destroy another person's life, not even knowing if what she did was truly right... Because that's how I felt when I killed Thordan, I wasn't sure we did something good... And that's why I tried so much to understand Thordan.

And on Hydaelyn bleeding for primals... Well, yes. But then again, Thordan doesn't give a damn about Hydaelyn and Zodiark, he wants to protect Ishgard.

Aymeric also doesn't sound to me as a calm guy... He was angry at Thordan for personal reasons and Thordan was angry at him for personal reasons... It was stupid to let him go there alone.

[Atoli]

About Thordan: I completely disagree with your view on him. He was clinging to power while his people were suffering and dying left and right. Sure, from his point of view it was necessary for the greater good (stability of the state by keeping everyone from finding out the truth), but that doesn't make him GOOD. Notice that in fiction - and real life, for that matter - "evil" people rarely think of what they are doing as evil. They do it because they either think wholeheartedly that it's a good thing OR at most aknowledge it as necessary evil to reach the greater good. So no, just because he thought he was doing something good doesn't make him not evil.
Also, he was just delaying the inevitable. The revolution started from within with Ysayle's people and Hilda's followers, BECAUSE Thordan left such a huge portion of his people suffering and dying. The WoL only helped speed the process up a bit.

Having said all that...I personally have to say I agree with him though xD
It's heavily implied that our sole motive (except for getting rid of all primals) in the end was to let the truth be known as an end in itsself, not to reach a certain goal. I agree with Thordan that that's just stupid. IF he properly tried to lead his people out of the war and didn't use a made-up concept of nobles being better and special to opress everyone, I would have been 100% on his side. But you know, in that case no revolution would have happened in the first place, everyone would have been too happy for the Ascians to properly sway anyone and he would never have any reason to become a Primal to begin with, so there would be no conflict with the WoL either.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Also the reason i made this thread was to ask how the ending affected the player's character from a RP standpoint.

It's too....well, difficult to say considering how everyone RPs their characters in so many ways. I think some people don't even consider their character a WOL for RP purposes and find some other reason on how their person gets power.


As for arguing from "Thordon's view", we don't even know what he thinks about making an alliance or what he thinks of the beastmen issues, amongst other things. All he cares about is stuff involving dragons and protecting the secret behind the war so that the people don't turn against him.

[Frederick22]

what would be his excuse anyway? That Halone gave him god powers? Was he even thinking above Halone or still acting on her name, despite everything?

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I think Thordon only thought about ending the war and then using his power and influence to crush other forms of oppression by using oppression himself.

[Kallera]

From my own rp perspective, while i consider Kallera a warrior of light, it is not the whole of her being, she had a life, even one as an adventurer(1.0) before it, even as it connects her to the legends at the end of the 7th umbral era.

Non RP wise:
There will come a time where no amount of aetherial technobabble will deliver us scot free. Thordan was willing to give up his very being and become a monster to ensure the victory and properity of his people. Are we willing to face that choice ourselves? Did we make that choice already by destroying him? What the main character is becoming seems to be a major question in heavensward even after, and because of, our feats and destroyed enemies...
Regardless of being primal or not, we (And counltess others in Eorzea) kill the supernatual for the crime of existing on Hydelyn. If we ourselves are no longer among mortal men and women then what are we, and how long before we outlive our usefulness?

RP wise:
When the rage subsided, and the battles ended, the last question of Thordan VII remained, and what should have been a rousing victory seemed like a misplayed last note only she could hear. For there wasn't a soul in Eorzea that didn't know her now, not a one who couldn't answer that question...except herself.

[Atoli]

For there wasn't a soul in Eorzea that didn't know her now [...]

...maybe someone in Ala Mhigo hasn't heard yet

[Kallera]

...maybe someone in Ala Mhigo hasn't heard yet

Oh goody!

[Belhi]

Well, I really don't know how Ellice reacted as I don't identify at all to the WoL... But I think she would have stopped working for Hydaelyn almost instantly. Ellice is a really sensible character, and should she understand That she hurt somebody, or let her feelings and reasoning destroy another person's life, not even knowing if what she did was truly right... Because that's how I felt when I killed Thordan, I wasn't sure we did something good... And that's why I tried so much to understand Thordan.

And on Hydaelyn bleeding for primals... Well, yes. But then again, Thordan doesn't give a damn about Hydaelyn and Zodiark, he wants to protect Ishgard.

Aymeric also doesn't sound to me as a calm guy... He was angry at Thordan for personal reasons and Thordan was angry at him for personal reasons... It was stupid to let him go there alone.

Hydaelyn isn't just a floaty crystal. It is all made one. An embodiment of the life of the world. Simply put, Primals suck the world of its very life force. This is why Alexander would have made the Hinterlands barren within months and why we kill Primals. Their very existence kills the world around them slowly and the stronger they are the more they consume.

Regardless of Thordan's intentions, which I felt were short sighted, his method would have come at a terrible price. This is assuming he just wiped out the Garleans and the dragons (and frankly not all dragons deserve to be killed off any more than the Ishgardians do). Add to that, his dialog in the fight seemed to imply he didn't plan to just stop with Ishgard but 'bring order to the world' as a new god king.

Aymeric went along cause he hoped he could make his father see reason and bring change to Ishgard rather than enforcing a lie. The very basis for Ishgard's social structure, which in turn has lead to serious social equality and abuses of lower classes, was a lie. He was, quite rightly, convinced that with Nidhogg gone it was only a matter of time before the lower classes began to get restless of the oppression of the high houses.

Thordan was in a position of authority with the influence to transition Ishgard into a less socially imbalanced society and therefore avoid potential civil unrest. Lets be clear. We had already removed Nidhogg when Thordan left. He didn't need the power of a primal to defeat that dragon anymore. The Horde had had its head cut off.