The issue nobody wants to address

[Archaell]

since almost no one would use the "No Parser" DF, and you would see a ton of "No Parser DF queues are way to long!" threads pop up. I'm totally fine with that if it actually gets them in the game.

But it voids the negatives presented with the hidden numbers idea.

I share similar point of view. It is about the choice tho. If players would cry about long queues you could just tell them to sign up for both. Choice.

I saw that. Thanks for posting the suggestion there, I am loathe to get sucked into another of these topics. I appreciate that you have taken up the idea of optional use. Though I would make it a blanket option without the segregated DF Q's.

You can't really allow players to join groups that parse and hide their own numbers. That would just preserve the issues we have right now. If players would want to play without numbers that's okay, but they have to play with players that share the same opinion. The same goes for parsing ones.

[Kosmos992k]

You can't really allow players to join groups that parse and hide their own numbers.

That starts from a position where the presumption is that you *WILL* be parsed, making players that don't allow parsing to be the exception.

In FFXIV the current situation (and since the game started in 1.0) is that the presumption is that you *WILL NOT* be parsed and parser use is the exception.

In respect to this 'hiding' something thought, I think that making that judgement on the basic of whether a player enabled or disable parsing of their data is akin to discriminating against those who don't choose to be parsed. Would players presently using a parser appreciate it if they were discriminated against based on their use of a parser? I think not. Neither situation should be tolerable to any of us.

[Archaell]

That starts from a position where the presumption is that you *WILL* be parsed, making players that don't allow parsing to be the exception.

Okay then parsing players will be the exception. Honestly, I don't see why that should matter, but... to make you happy, players that decide to show their numbers, should not be grouped with players that aren't showing their numbers.

Now if I may explain my point further. The instance when parsing is optional and dependant on the player's choice inside a single DF queue is the same like telling the anti-parsing player that they can turn off the parsing window so that they do not see themself being parsed.

[MentheusDreyar]

Would players presently using a parser appreciate it if they were discriminated against based on their use of a parser?

We already are, so i don't see your point...

Try to help? Get told to basically F@$% off.

Try to explain in a vague way to avoid direct confirmation that you are using a parser? Nothing really changes or get told to prove it or F@$% off.

Try to give actual number's and stats to explain and help in detail? Probably all of the above AND we risk getting reported and banned.

We can't legally help and explain without risk to ourselves so we are forced to kick and act like "elitists" because we can't help so the next best thing to do is remove them. How does this situation help at all!? IT DOESN'T Who does this help at all? Very few people because no one gets feedback to improve.

Things are better out in the open. There's positives and negatives yes, but the fact remains there's ZERO POSITIVES for hiding your data for anyone in a group.

[Kosmos992k]

We already are, so i don't see your point...

Try to help? Get told to basically F@$% off.

Try to explain in a vague way to avoid direct confirmation that you are using a parser? Nothing really changes or get told to prove it or F@$% off.

2 things.

1) That's false. No one will discriminate against you for running a parser on your PC, because they have no idea nor care if you are.

2) As I have tried to point out innumerable times, people get defensive when they are being criticized and when offered unsolicited advice. You're talking about people reacting negatively to your using parser data against them, not reacting negatively to your personal use of a parse, there is a key difference, one involves players besides yourself, the other is purely personal.

I'll say it again, "Would players presently using a parser appreciate it if they were discriminated against based on their use of a parser?".

You can't be discriminated against because no one has anyway of knowing whether or not you personally do use a parser or not. What you are talking about is what happens when you take your parser data that you collected and try to use it, and then other players react negatively. That is not discrimination, that's the reaction of players to being criticized or receiving unsolicited advice. No one is stopping you from running your parser privately or with friends, nor are they trying to prevent you from grouping with them, because it's not an issue - unless your own actions make it an issue..

Now if I may explain my point further. The instance when parsing is optional and dependant on the player's choice inside a single DF queue is the same like telling the anti-parsing player that they can turn off the parsing window so that they do not see themself being parsed.

Why would that be the case? If I am grouped with 3 other players all of who are allowing parsing, and I am not, why would the game prevent each of the other three from seeing the parser data for their own performance and that of the other two players?

I'm suggesting that only the numbers of the player who disabled parsing of their numbers should be omitted from the parser data - and that to be fair, if you disallow parsing, you don't get to see the parsed data of the others in the party. That way, those who want to be parsed can participate and see each others numbers and those that do not, don't appear in the parse at all, and can't see the parse of others. It would not be fair to anyone to allow a player to disable parsing and still see the data feed from the in-game parser.

[Whiteroom]

2 things.

1) That's false. No one will discriminate against you for running a parser on your PC, because they have no idea nor care if you are.

Really? Considering if you type the words "I am running a Parser" you can get banned.

Considering if someone knows you are, and asks their numbers, you can get banned for saying it?

Why would that be the case? If I am grouped with 3 other players all of who are allowing parsing, and I am not, why would the game prevent each of the other three from seeing the parser data for their own performance and that of the other two players?

Are you seriously unable to understand what he is saying? Or are you trolling?
I mean, you flat out ignore all negatives presented with your idea. You don't even use them to adjust it and make it better as he did.

[Kosmos992k]

Really? Considering if you type the words "I am running a Parser" you can get banned.

Guess what? That's not discrimination, that's the impact of the terms and conditions of use being applied.

Are you seriously unable to understand what he is saying? Or are you trolling?
I mean, you flat out ignore all negatives presented with your idea. You don't even use them to adjust it and make it better as he did.

Instead of calling me names and over-reacting, why don't you be so kind as to explain how you think I am ignoring what was said?

i think the major crux of all this is duty roulette verses first time clear

it would be nice if there was a speedrun option for the df that would only put you with speedrun people

I think that Party Finder is what you are looking for since you can group with like minded players and speed run to your heart's delight.

[Whiteroom]

Instead of calling me names and over-reacting, why don't you be so kind as to explain how you think I am ignoring what was said?

Because its not over reacting or name calling. You are blatantly ignoring all of the negatives with your own suggestion. Its a serious question, even the ones put in a constructive manner, with suggestions to make the idea better and less prone to abuse. You falsely accuse others of ignoring the negatives of parsers, all the while completely ignoring the negatives of your suggestion. Ones that since you have made referances to your deeper understanding of human nature should be glaringly obvious to you. What else am I supposed to think other than trolling? Also, he was very clear about it being two separate df's for parsing and not parsing.

I'm suggesting that only the numbers of the player who disabled parsing of their numbers should be omitted from the parser data

I'm pretty sure everyone fully understands what you are suggesting, it is not a foreign or new concept. That you, who seem to think parsers create widespread abuse, cannot see how people would view the person hiding their numbers in runs where dps check fail, is mind boggling. Especially when you can consider the process of elimination of seeing the other numbers. At that point they wouldn't even be guessing that the person who was hiding their numbers was the issue, as long as everyone who showed theirs was fine.