The issue nobody wants to address

[Natashio]

Or until DF isn't full of drooling idiots and "git gud" whichever comes first...

Going to quote myself:

I stopped caring about what other players do in Duty Finder a long time ago. That's my story (ー.ー").

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...06#post3355806

[Kosmos992k]

I have yet to see a person who is against this. Not even the "Fear Mongering" people.

As I asked several pages back of the parser advocates, if we presume that an official parser will arrive when the add-on API is released, what is wrong with giving players the option to opt in/out of being parsed? That way players in pre-mades can all parse to their heart's delight, but in DF no one get's parsed if they don't want to.

So far the only answer I have was that including an option for player control of parsing their data would cause more toxicity. I still cannot see how giving players control over whether they are parsed or not as a compromise to allow a full parser in the game can be a bad thing for those advocating the use of parsers. It preserves the choice/right of players that don't want to be parsed to choose not to be parsed, while giving parser advocates the tool that they demand.

Certainly the ability to opt in/out would also allow any such parser to be used personally to parse performance against a striking dummy or mob pack from a treasure map (for example), even if the player disabled parsing when running other types of content. That would seem to meet the expectations of players such as Dante_V.

Based on the reaction of parser advocates in this topic, you might think I am utterly, and unreasonably against parsers. However much like politics, reality is perception and the original message is lost in a cloud reactionary responses. When that happens, the original message becomes redefined by the reactions. That becomes the reality a few pages later in the thread, regardless of what was actually said or intended.

[Kosmos992k]

I have multiple problems, including the ones you listed. I do not allow myself to be a liabillity, do not allow myself to fail. So even something as simple as df expert has my undivided attention and makes me play at raid level. The amount of concentration required for me to perform at this level is immense. I have to pay attention to my own tunnel vision, buffs, dots, mob health, hazard zones,mechanics, other players, player health all the while maintaining rotation. While some raiders would laugh at this and take it for granted, for someone like me who has severe issues with multi tasking and tunnel vision it requires full concentration.

So while I, a person with a handicap, give it my all, most randomns I end up with don't even try. I have tolerated this and have been carrying these people since 2.0, but I'm tired of playing the nice guy. Is it to much to ask for me that people should atleast be able to play within 50-70% of job potential instead of 15-30%?

If the majority of players put even half as much effort as you do into the game, then we would not have a problem. Because you care about your performance and strive to do well, you do well. Among other players, those who want to improve will, and those who don't want to, won't. A parser won't change their attitude.

But, by all means use parsers in pre-made groups and statics for end-game or practice. No one is against doing that are they?

[MentheusDreyar]

Snip.

Because it's ultimately a useless and unnecessary feature? Why would you want to hide your contribution from the group? It shows you clearly don't care about working as a group or have something to hide. Either case will see you removed because you don't deserve to be there, especially if you're causing failures.

You also limit feedback from other experienced players, granted negative as well as positive. We can't give real time advice without seeing your performance in real time. We also can't see where exactly things are going wrong in real time.

It's all well and good saying your average DPS is X amount, but if we failed in the first place unless you are clearly under performing consistently to the point where you average is low enough to make you stand out we don't know what the exact problem is.

If you're having issues with a particular phase, or mechanic we wouldn't know. You'd receive no relevant advice and nothing gets accomplished or you are kicked and the party disbanded.

People against parsers are avoiding literally every possible benefit we state over and over again because in their selfishness and ignorance they don't want responsibility. That's the only real conclusion we can draw, because ignoring harassment (which happens regardless of parser) that's the only reason left. If they don't want any form of responsibility they are playing the wrong game/genre!

[Archaell]

in DF no one get's parsed if they don't want to

My suggestion in another thread:

How to introduce official parser without hurting anybody's feelings? Make it individual choice.

In solo content give players option to turn it on/off.
In open world group content give party leader option to turn it on/off.
In duty finder content - Split queues. Right next to the "in progress" put an option "join party with parser" and "join party without parser". This option should be also active for roulettes.

Give players choice if they want to play with similarly minded players.

[Whiteroom]

Because it's ultimately a useless and unnecessary feature?

The best part is, multiple people gave her multiple answers. Most saying that they didn't really care if it was implemented, but that it would only help those people whom she is terrified of abuse people. It was her choice to entirely ignore the negatives people presented, which is ironic, because I'm sure she has gone on about pro-parsers denying there are any negatives to parsers, which I have not seen any of them actually do.

My suggestion in another thread:

I'm totally with your suggestion. I think coding the different set ups like that is a waste of time personally, since almost no one would use the "No Parser" DF, and you would see a ton of "No Parser DF queues are way to long!" threads pop up. I'm totally fine with that if it actually gets them in the game.

But it voids the negatives presented with the hidden numbers idea.

Yeap.. It's going to continue till they shut this thing down...

And another one will open, and another. And it will quiet down a bit at the start of 3.1. Then it will come to the front again, once people are slowing down on that content. And there will be those amazing forum vets who sigh "not this again", and respond "Yeap, this again". That is the way ongoing issues work.

[Kosmos992k]

My suggestion in another thread:

I saw that. Thanks for posting the suggestion there, I am loathe to get sucked into another of these topics. I appreciate that you have taken up the idea of optional use. Though I would make it a blanket option without the segregated DF Q's.

Because it's ultimately a useless and unnecessary feature? Why would you want to hide your contribution from the group? It shows you clearly don't care about working as a group or have something to hide. Either case will see you removed because you don't deserve to be there, especially if you're causing failures.

OK look, I play PLD as my main class, and WHM secondary. I know all about having your mistakes laid bare for others to review as either tank or healer. Yes, damage dealers don't have to endure such scrutiny, and their mistakes are much less obvious. But you're assuming that because someone doesn't want to engage in parser use, they have something to hide. Can't you see the danger of pre-judging others like that? The very language used to describe players opting out of parsers carries with it a connotation of suspicion "Why would you want to hide your..." Why is it that you refer to it as hiding something? You appear to me to be presuming a lot without knowing anything.

As I said in the post you replied to and many of my previous posts, I can see that parsers potentially have a benefit in end-game content, premade parties and statics. However I am against forcing everyone into using parsers, as I suggested before, and Archaell suggested in another topic recently, give players opinions and control over whether they participate in parsing. If the parsing of a player's numbers is under their own personal control, I see no issues with having parsers.

[Archaell]

since almost no one would use the "No Parser" DF, and you would see a ton of "No Parser DF queues are way to long!" threads pop up. I'm totally fine with that if it actually gets them in the game.

But it voids the negatives presented with the hidden numbers idea.

I share similar point of view. It is about the choice tho. If players would cry about long queues you could just tell them to sign up for both. Choice.

I saw that. Thanks for posting the suggestion there, I am loathe to get sucked into another of these topics. I appreciate that you have taken up the idea of optional use. Though I would make it a blanket option without the segregated DF Q's.

You can't really allow players to join groups that parse and hide their own numbers. That would just preserve the issues we have right now. If players would want to play without numbers that's okay, but they have to play with players that share the same opinion. The same goes for parsing ones.

[Kosmos992k]

You can't really allow players to join groups that parse and hide their own numbers.

That starts from a position where the presumption is that you *WILL* be parsed, making players that don't allow parsing to be the exception.

In FFXIV the current situation (and since the game started in 1.0) is that the presumption is that you *WILL NOT* be parsed and parser use is the exception.

In respect to this 'hiding' something thought, I think that making that judgement on the basic of whether a player enabled or disable parsing of their data is akin to discriminating against those who don't choose to be parsed. Would players presently using a parser appreciate it if they were discriminated against based on their use of a parser? I think not. Neither situation should be tolerable to any of us.

[Archaell]

That starts from a position where the presumption is that you *WILL* be parsed, making players that don't allow parsing to be the exception.

Okay then parsing players will be the exception. Honestly, I don't see why that should matter, but... to make you happy, players that decide to show their numbers, should not be grouped with players that aren't showing their numbers.

Now if I may explain my point further. The instance when parsing is optional and dependant on the player's choice inside a single DF queue is the same like telling the anti-parsing player that they can turn off the parsing window so that they do not see themself being parsed.