The issue nobody wants to address

[Jynx]

Really? You agree with this 110%, because three of the four statements made here are objectively false.

You can disagree with me all you want. But I'm obviously not the only person with this opinion nor are you with yours, you tend to often point out that historically parsers haven't really caused issues for others. Let's also look at how many MMO's have put a parser INTO the game without leaving it as an application used at the users own preference. I've been in a few games myself and I've never seen such a system perhaps you could enlighten me to what games have been trailbazers in this field.

You are being as subjective as I am with your claims.

[Ryel]

You can disagree with me all you want. But I'm obviously not the only person with this opinion nor are you with yours, you tend to often point out that historically parsers haven't really caused issues for others. Let's also look at how many MMO's have put a parser INTO the game without leaving it as an application used at the users own preference. I've been in a few games myself and I've never seen such a system perhaps you could enlighten me to what games have been trailbazers in this field.

You are being as subjective as I am with your claims.

DC Universe Online

By default every instance has a running meter that Displays:

Damage Done
Healing Done
Damage Taken
Power (MP) Restored

It can be brought up at any time and is publicly displayed.

[Jynx]

Interesting. I wasn't aware any mmo had actually put it in game.

Haven't heard bad things about DCS community. But I haven't heard much so I could be mistaken. How are dps checks on it tight or is it purely a vanity thing?

[Colorful]

snip.

The anti-parser crowd is arguing that parsers will have a huge effect on the amount of toxicity found in the game, but I don't believe that to be the case. There will likely be an increased amount of it, but only slightly. For one, this kind of toxicity already exists in the game, but instead of claiming "Lalafell Shrimp is a bad player" they'd claim "God, the DPS in this party are awful" when the reality of it is that there's only 1 or DPS dragging the rest down, but how are they supposed to know? Don't get me started on the amount of times I've seen a DPS lash out on the rest of the party when they were doing the least during Bismarck, instant kick out of my parties.

Why are people so opposed to attaching responsibility to a DPS role? Every other role has it, and it's a common thing in multiplayer games to know how your teammates are doing. You don't go onto the Halo forums and cry "Remove the kills and deaths from the scoreboard, people can see how useless I am!" do you? No, you don't. No one should be able to get away with doing incredibly poor DPS and get the same rewards as someone who is actually putting effort into playing. Would you like me to go into dungeons and start doing 500-800 DPS while watching TV? I'm sure no one would mind, because I'm a DPS and they should have no responsibility. /s

[Archaell]

...

Why is your character so cute? It's really making it hard to disagree with you ^.^

You are saying that lazy people will remain lazy. That's not entirely true. If you get enough group kicks for being lazy, then you might reconsider continuing your actions. Some will not change, some will.

The main issue with laziness, except for using others to get carried, is that the devs start considering nerfs and after that they just focus on easy content which can be done undersized. Wouldn't you say that this is also destroying games? I am getting mocked on regular basis by my friends that this game is the most casual MMO in existence... so they don't even try it. I don't blame them tho. The game is casual, but too much of it may discourage new players.

Now if the players were more willing to improve, the game could get a little bit more challenging, which could bring new players and lead to additional prosperity. The issue is that players expect to clear content that is beyond their skill, which they could finish fine if they put some effort in it. I don't see how this is good for the game.

[Ryel]

Interesting. I wasn't aware any mmo had actually put it in game.

Haven't heard bad things about DCS community. But I haven't heard much so I could be mistaken. How are dps checks on it tight or is it purely a vanity thing?

There are a few DPS check fights in the game, it isn't as heavily reliant on them as this game is however.

The game also had open PvP servers so in general i found the community to be a bit thicker skinned anyway, back when i was playing and raiding having your numbers out in the open led to more situations of comedy than they did drama often times a Healer or something trying to sneak in some extra DPS or some such.

More often than not though the damage meter did more to illustrate class imbalance than it did poor player skill, sure occasionally you would have someone who wasn't playing up to par, but a simple "Hey you're doing like 1/3rd the damage of the other fire DPS" would lead to "Oh? what skill set are you using? how do i do that?" and it pretty much ended there.

Raid designs in general were more focused about mechanics though, and as the combat system was designed in a way that it felt more like playing a fighting game it went well with it's environment.

[Whiteroom]

You are being as subjective as I am with your claims.

how so? those three points weren't subjective at all.

Interesting. I wasn't aware any mmo had actually put it in game.

Haven't heard bad things about DCS community. But I haven't heard much so I could be mistaken. How are dps checks on it tight or is it purely a vanity thing?

It's community has it's issues, like all, I find it to be worse for things other than parsers.

The devs tend to listen to the "Make everything easier" crowd at the drop of a hat. One resulting example would be "The Gates of Tartarus" Raid. It was an 8 man raid during Tier 4. It was so faceroll easy, that it was soloed at the next tier set. This is what some of the playerbase cried for more of, and last I checked up, it was stupid easy with all the new content. While a whole game can't be extreme challenge, a fall asleep easy game can't be healthy either.

But the devs over there were shown to intentionally leave gear set pieces out of the raid, on the assumption to sell more replay tickets*.

*Replay Tickets allow you too remove the loot lockout on a raid, so that you may gear up quicker. Think being able to get all the loot from Savage in a week, as long as you payed SE an extra 20-40 bucks. Any game with Pay to Win, well...


As far as the DPS check, they were tight in T5, but given how easy they made T4, the majority of the community wasn't ready for it. I can reccomend checking out how they set up The Paradox Wave raid in T5 though. Where you can fight the mini bosses seperatly in tunnels, or leave some up to fight with the main boss, and have them drop a higher level loot. A mini boss would pop out at the start of each phase, and you wanted to kill it before the next phase, or face two minis, as well as the main. And each of the mini's had one shot mechanics. That made for really tight dps checks if you could handle it.

As far as other MMOs that have them built in, someone listed about 5 a few pages back. Found it.

Offhand i can think of a few MMORPGs on the market that either allow, include, or make use of DPS meters through either in-game features or add on support:

Everquest
World of Warcraft
DC universe Online
Star Wars: The old Republic
Lord of the Rings Online

Many of them have been around far longer and it's already been shown that apathy is the largest response to public parsing, not toxicity. Maleviction posted a video talking about this, i suggest you watch it.

[CosmicKirby]

BTW calling people lazy scrubs is really not a very tolerant way to behave, and considering how most people in general treat kids with any developmental disability, and the words that they use to describe them, I'm disappointed to see you using that kind of language.

This part right here comes off as really condescending to the person you quoted.


They did not make any statement about people with disabilities other than themselves. I don't see how tolerance is an issue with what they said at all. As they're using it, they seem to be describing players by their actions first and foremost, not any disability. I can see someone criticizing them for not considering why they might come off as lazy, but you're not doing that in this response. You're simply assuming that they're complaining about players with disabilities.

Further, you're projecting your experience and how you feel about disabilities to them in a condescending fashion. Through your life experiences you may have developed a certain way to describe others with disabilities, but you're making the assumption that the poster hasn't quite reached the same level of understanding that you have on the subject. Rather than disagreeing with them, you're berating them for not learning properly.

[Misutoraru]

Why is your character so cute? It's really making it hard to disagree with you ^.^
.

first, thank you

i do not agree making dungeon challenging by increasing boss HP or adding DPS check

actually i care more about the storyline /background story of each dungeon than challenging or not

i think the right way of challenging is not how hard you can hit the boss, but the do the right thing at the right time

for example i love the fight for Dragon neck, there are no DPS check, but doing the right move

again, i m not against a meter for personal use, but i do object it become official

i can only say my experience told me when it become prevalent, the harm it does are far greater than the good

i m not trying to change anyone mind, i wasnt even planning to involve in this thread until my fear of those dark dates will appear again

and i wont change my mind either, just show my support with Jynx, and kind of express my feeling about it

[Kosmos992k]

*snip*Rather than disagreeing with them, you're berating them for not learning properly.

I'm berating no one, and I've said nothing about learning properly, though you have. The poster I was replying to should know better than to use the expression that they did, it's not about "learning properly", it's about respecting others.

I don't think you understand my objection to the phrase "lazy scrubs". I didn't think that remark was being used to describe anyone with a disability; I took it at face value as a disparaging remark aimed at gamers the poster thinks are not as good as he is. The point being, using such a phrase against others is both a generalization and prejudiced (as in pre-judging others) remark to make. If the poster is as they claim (and I see no reason to doubt them), high functioning autistic, then they'll be aware of the often disparaging terms used to describe those with disabilities - which I will not repeat here.

In other words, someone that through their own life experience should know not to use disparaging or negative remarks, went right ahead anyway. I simply pointed that out.