The issue nobody wants to address

[Jynx]

The funny thing is people think the terrible dps are just poor uniformed souls who just need to be forced to see how bad they are. Parsers would magically solve the problems of terrible people in duty finder.

The reality: almost nobody you see that's a bad dps tank or healer with a bad attitude cares what you think about their rotation or parse numbers. They are using the duty finder and mashing to victory because they know there is little to no back blow to not doing your job.

Parsers are useful to those who can understand them in context. Those people already use them. Force feeding the tool down every players throats is a bad idea in general. It only promotes toxicity in the community in my opinion.

[Malevicton]

It only promotes toxicity in the community in my opinion.

How? That's always the argument, but it's never based on anything more than "well just my opinion" or "I met someone who was mean once."

Parsers aren't unexplored territory. Jerks use them in jerkish ways, but they don't make people who aren't jerks into jerks. It just doesn't happen. It's a completely unfounded fear.

[Jynx]

How? That's always the argument.

It just doesn't happen.

It's a completely unfounded fear.

Despite the fact that it's a very common occurance? I've never experienced it myself but I've talked to enough people about how pushy people can get when throwing parse numbers around without even understanding the context of the numbers themselves.

Like I said throwing numbers at people does nothing, all your saying is. "These numbers mean things do them better!", and the imediate response is "Those numbers give me proof to show them they are bad!" Why would a player who is willing to improve would even need this as evidence the only reasoning behind people wanting parsers is in all reality the free reign to shame people over their numbers. I have no qualms with the usefullness of the tool for people who actually use them to calculate their rotations and all that stuff but the general player isn't going to do that. Not everyone cares to be as bleeding edge as you think they want to be.

You may think that some people are just poor uninfomred souls but I guarnatee you a good majority of them are just facerolling because they know you are never going to see them again in content. The best enforcement of people needing to actually know there job and play the game is responsibillity the duty finder works against this. Being known as the guy who just wont listen to advice on how to be a better player is worse than having your numbers shown for strangers to look at for 10-15 minutes until they never see you again.

[Ryel]

Despite the fact that it's a very common occurance? I've never experienced it myself but I've talked to enough people about how pushy people can get when throwing parse numbers around without even understanding the context of the numbers themselves.

So common that not only have you not experienced it yourself so your evidence isn't even anecdotal, but you're instead relying on third party testimonials?

Whelp I'm convinced.

You may think that some people are just poor uninfomred souls but I guarnatee you a good majority of them are just facerolling because they know you are never going to see them again in content. The best enforcement of people needing to actually know there job and play the game is responsibillity the duty finder works against this. Being known as the guy who just wont listen to advice on how to be a better player is worse than having your numbers shown for strangers to look at for 10-15 minutes until they never see you again.

I don't disagree with this but the point was never about fixing the entire playerbase as I've mentioned before, allowing players to have some form of accountability in the DF on DPS jobs doesnt instantly make everyone a better DPS or force them to care.

However it might mitigate some of what we're seeing and will definitely help those who are interested in seeing their numbers but are unable to.

Like console players.

No offense but if you're trying to provide a point saying how the addition of parsers would breed toxicity, saying the equivalent of "Some guy in my FC said someone in Ex roulette was being mean" isn't going to make your point.

[Malevicton]

So common that not only have you not experienced it yourself so your evidence isn't even anecdotal, but you're instead relying on third party testimonials?

Whelp I'm convinced.

^Pretty much this. It's a common hypothetical, not a common occurrence.

This video's pretty old (and about WoW) but this is what far more commonly happens with parsers (spoiler: nobody cares about people's dps, let alone harasses them): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

[RickXRolled]

I've noticed multiple problems when I pay attention to under performing players.

1. They press buttons as if they have a 5-10s gcd.
2. They don't know what weaving is.(saw a dragoon use power surge+jump+spineshatter+dragonfiredive back to back without touching a single gcd.
3. Don't even know what their abillities do and how they affect one another(ice mages)
4. Fail to use Dots and maintain them.(probably assume they are not worth using)
5. Unnecessary movements.(positionals and hazard zone avoidance)
6. Failure to move at all.(Positionals and hazard zone avoidance)
7. Abillity to make good judgment.(Using touch of death on a mob with 5% hp that is being focused down.)
8. Netflix.(I wish I was joking)

[Whiteroom]

I've noticed multiple problems when I pay attention to under performing players.

6. Failure to move at all.(Positionals and hazard zone avoidance)

LOL three BLMs in A1 today. 3 people getting hit with Photon Spaser...
Also, what are Alarums...

[Whiteroom]

So common that not only have you not experienced it yourself so your evidence isn't even anecdotal, but you're instead relying on third party testimonials?

Whelp I'm convinced.

And its not like hes new either, hes been around since 2011, and still only heard it from a friend, or a friend of a friend. Sounds like a rampant issue to me.

[Jynx]

And its not like hes new either.

It just means I have never been personally harassed about my DPS, Tanking, or Healing abillities.

But hey I try to party with friends whenever possible anyways to avoid the duty finder in itself. Doesn't mean I've only heard of it from a "Friend of a friend" I've had many company members experience this and I trust their opinions. A full party parse even in it's best scenario does little if anything to help the hillarious situations you run into in the duty finder.

Beyond even my company I hear of it, I'm a social guy just because you don't think it happens doesn't mean it does.

[Whiteroom]

It just means I have never been personally harassed about my DPS, Tanking, or Healing abillities.

But hey I try to party with friends whenever possible anyways to avoid the duty finder in itself. Doesn't mean I've only heard of it from a "Friend of a friend" I've had many company members experience this and I trust their opinions. A full party parse even in it's best scenario does little if anything to help the hillarious situations you run into in the duty finder.

Beyond even my company I hear of it, I'm a social guy just because you don't think it happens doesn't mean it does.

Your ability to put words in mouths here is awesome. Not a single person has denied that there is the odd person who would abuse it. I wonder how many times that has to be repeated, the list of obvious things that need to be repeated is ever growing.

Despite the fact that it's a very common occurance? I've never experienced it myself but I've talked to enough people about how pushy people can get when throwing parse numbers around without even understanding the context of the numbers themselves..

Please re-read your exact words, put in the context of you being around for four years.
Does Very Common fit, in any way, when you put those two pieces of information together?

If it did, you would have run into it many times with even casual use of DF and PF, regardless of if you commonly run with mostly friends.