Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

[Freyyy]

Divine Veil is, in my opinion, a great idea, but clunkily executed. It would be interesting to see what would happen if it were completely re-thought though.

I've toyed with the the ability becoming more like deployment tactics. What if it took whatever buff the paladin has applied to itself and spread it to the party at half strength? It would then have some interesting support aspects - raid wide damage? Apply stoneskin/rampart to yourself and spread. Need dps? Pop fight or flight and spread.

This would be incredibly OP even with half strength. FoF is 30% for 30 sec. Even if you cut in half both the power and the duration of it, it would be 15% for 15 sec for all party members. It would be twice as powerful as NIN's Trick Attack (50% more powerful and lasts 50% longer). Plus I think an ability called "Veil" should stay fully defensive. I think they should just increase the shield's potency (maybe to 15-20% of the Paladin's HP) and lower the CD to something along the lines of 90s.

As for raid DPS issues with a PLD, there is plenty of ways to fix that.

Hell, I hate suggestions. I always say that I prefer waiting for the dev team to show us what they got because they always do good things in terms of job balance (Look 2.0 WAR, MNK, DRG). But I also have some ideas that come in my head sometimes like "this thing should do this, why developpers didn't even think about it ?", so I'm gonna share a bit of that.

They could increase both threat multiplier and potency of RoH. Make it something like 280-290-300. Threat multiplier 5.5x like the other tanks. BAM. Now PLD doesn't lose as much DPS as now when doing his threat combo, and because he hits harder AND generates more threat with it, he can use Royal Authority a LOT more, thus increasing even more their MT DPS. Make Shield Swipe worth using (make it so that its potency is superior to the average potency-per-GCD of a PLD doing the optimal DPS GB-RA-RA-GB-RA-RA rotation). Do something to make Tempered Will useful for every fight in the game, something like, every spell casted during the duration of it can't be interrupted, and full immunity to all detrimental status effects, it would perfectly match the name AND fix the Clemency while MT issue. Make Clemency trigger Divine Veil but only in the case you're healing an ally and receiving the 50% portion for yourself. Reduce the cast time of Clemency to 2 or 2.5 sec to atleast match the GCD (like, seriously, why isn't it already the case ?). For the magical damage mitigation part, they could just make Bulwark give a 20% magical damage reduction on top of the already existing effect, because they said that shields will never be able to block magic (don't forget that Bulwark is 180sec CD, so this addition would be completely balanced and would never make PLD outperform DRK in the realm of magic mitigation). In the case of an only-magic enemy and OT-DPSing, make Sheltron do an additionnal effect in the case nothing has been blocked for the full duration, like, Shield Swipe proc when the debuff falls off naturally.

And because PLDs would get tools against magic, do something for DRK about physical too. Nothing too fancy, but just a little thingy to help. Like for example make Grit + DA only Souleater generate a barrier-type shield equal to the lifesteal we got with it (like an Adlo that shields for the amount of healing done) and make that shield work only on physical attacks. Active mitigation yo.


But all of that are just thoughts for myself, I'm confident that the developpers will bring balance to us and I don't care what way they'll chose, it may take more than 1 patch, but since 2.0 they always did a good work re-balancing jobs.

[Xenosan]

My one guess would be that SE is still afraid of PLD/PLD raid setups. They were offended years ago when the community cleared T5 before LoA, and that left PLDs in contempt. De facto solo tanking t8 probably didn't help either. Those are probably the things YoshiP first thinks of when asked about PLD and why he says what he said. Battle Team had to do a lot of creative Adds mechanics and such to trials/raids to get the encounters out of PLD's wheelhouse (and that worked, can see that starting b4 HW with FCOB)

[Kydi]

snip

It would need tweaking, and like I say, it's just been rolling around, but remember fight or flight is only physical damage. Trick attack affects all damage. It would also be available far less frequently. Trick attack results in approximately 1.7% damage increase for all party members if used on cooldown (10% for 10s every 60). If fight or flight were possible to spread at half duration (30% for 15s every 210s) it would result in a 2.1% damage increase to physical damage, so probably pretty similar overall when taking into consideration the loss of bonus to your caster(s) and healers.

Like I say, it's something which has bounced around in my head for a while to give the PLD a unique means of supporting the party. Naturally they could just increase damage and threat modifiers (although that would make level 50 content horrible for the other tanks with a PLD spamming RoH), but it would be nice to see some novel mechanics.

As you say, the devs will, I hope, come up with some nice changes to give PLD equal footing, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[Freyyy]

It would need tweaking, and like I say, it's just been rolling around, but remember fight or flight is only physical damage.

Granted. I completely forgot this. My bad.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

PLD is too op SE please don't listen to what PLD players say they know nothing and leave as is or better yet nerf its op hallowed ground to 5 secs.

Says all DRK and WAR players cause why 3 tanks when only two slots if all tanks equal many tanks would miss out on duty's. so that's reason to leave PLD weakest.

[Exodus_Kenpachi]

My one guess would be that SE is still afraid of PLD/PLD raid setups. They were offended years ago when the community cleared T5 before LoA, and that left PLDs in contempt. De facto solo tanking t8 probably didn't help either. Those are probably the things YoshiP first thinks of when asked about PLD and why he says what he said. Battle Team had to do a lot of creative Adds mechanics and such to trials/raids to get the encounters out of PLD's wheelhouse (and that worked, can see that starting b4 HW with FCOB)

Yeah but now we are in the relm of WAR/WAR content. Honestly if there wasnt a LB penalty, WAR/WAR would be the optimal setup. Even with the LB penalty I am willing to bet WAR/WAR is still the best set up.

[Syzygian]

Yeah but now we are in the relm of WAR/WAR content. Honestly if there wasnt a LB penalty, WAR/WAR would be the optimal setup. Even with the LB penalty I am willing to bet WAR/WAR is still the best set up.

I don't think it would be. An mt drk can match an mt war's dps and another war's path will not stack with yours, whereas delirium and reprisal will.

[Hieral]

They broke PLD in FFXI and pretended everything was fine.

Now a new development team is doing the same thing. What is with SE's hate of PLDs?

[ArdorGrey]

I don't think it would be. An mt drk can match an mt war's dps and another war's path will not stack with yours, whereas delirium and reprisal will.

Such a well reasoned post from the guy who wants WAR nerfed...

[ArdorGrey]

My one guess would be that SE is still afraid of PLD/PLD raid setups. They were offended years ago when the community cleared T5 before LoA, and that left PLDs in contempt. De facto solo tanking t8 probably didn't help either. Those are probably the things YoshiP first thinks of when asked about PLD and why he says what he said.

A lot of pld players seem to be of the mindset that this sort of favoritism was actually "balance", and that if pld can't solo tank everything then they need the damage output of warrior, and warriors ogcd stun, and warriors stance dancing, and warriors slashing debuff, and halone needs to apply path debuff on top of all pld's personal utilities buffed massively, on top of hallowed ground, and only then will their perception of "balance" be achieved.

Let's not even go into some of the really extreme theories that suggest pld also needs its own stack resource generation on top of all that.